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Parents' backing for joint faith schools

By Kathryn Torney
Monday, 8 September 2008

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The Executive should set up schools jointly managed by the Catholic and Protestant churches according to a new survey, the Belfast Telegraph can reveal today.

The Education Minister today faced fresh calls to establish joint faith schools after a survey showed that over two thirds (67%) of parents and grandparents of children of school age or yet to start school would support this move.

Last year, the Belfast Telegraph reported that representatives from the Catholic and Protestant churches and school principals had travelled together to visit inter-church schools in Liverpool.

Schools jointly managed by the main churches would be a radical move in Northern Ireland if given the go-ahead by church leaders and Government.

Currently, maintained schools are owned and managed by the Catholic Church, while controlled schools are owned by the education boards with the three main Protestant churches key stakeholders in their management.

The Telegraph can reveal that the survey, which was commissioned by the Northern Ireland Council for Integrated Education (NICIE) and carried out by Millard Brown, also found that

43% of the respondents would prefer their children or grandchildren to attend an integrated school.

Of those whose children or grandchildren had never attended an integrated school, 38% said this was because there were no places available in their local integrated school or no integrated schools in their area.

A massive 79% of the respondents also supported schools sharing facilities with nearby schools, even if they were in a different school sector, and 84% of those questioned believe that integrated education is important for peace and reconciliation in Northern Ireland.

Over 1,000 people were approached for the survey with most of the questions addressed to a representative sample of those with children or grandchildren aged under 19 still at school or college or not yet started, of which there were 478.

Representatives from the Catholic and Protestant Churches said they support a closer relationship between their sectors and called for research to be carried out into the prospect of joint faith-based schools being developed here.

Rev Ian Ellis, secretary to the Church of Ireland Board of Education NI and secretary to the Transferor Representatives’ Council (a council with a membership from the Church of Ireland, Presbyterian and Methodist churches), said the council supported all possibilities for sharing in education — including arrangements between schools, shared staff, shared facilities and the possible creation of some joint faith-based schools.

“The Millward Brown survey indicates that 67% of the sample of parent and grandparents support the establishment of jointly managed schools. This is a very encouraging response,” he continued.

“However, it is not possible to transplant the idea and approach of joint management without careful adaptation to the context of the Northern Ireland system of education.”

Bishop Donal McKeown, chair of the Northern Ireland Commission for Catholic Education, said: “Obviously any proposals for new forms of joint church engagement would have to come from the churches themselves. However, we are very keen to find creative and home-grown solutions.”

Michael Wardlow, NICIE chief executive officer, said: “The strong support for new initiatives, such as shared management schools by the Catholic and Protestant churches, sends an encouraging message to our church leaders.”

In response, Caitriona Ruane said: “As Education Minister I have a statutory duty to encourage and facilitate the integrated sector. I recognise and value the important role integrated education has in bringing children from different communities together and will study the findings of this new survey.”

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43 Comments

Kelly, in the name of religion, makes a case for compulsion. Integrated schools rely on branding pupils to the extent that a parent or grandparent's primary school attended may be used to assign a pupil to a particular group.
If all Christian schools are integrated why the need for separate integrated or joint-faith schools? For non-Christians and those without faith the joint-faith proposal must seem laughable.

Posted by Pro Tanto Quid | 23.09.08, 07:20 GMT

why not just send your children to an integrated school where they can learn about other faiths and religions as part of their curriculum.... ANTI BIAS means alot. as far as Religon Teach children all religons and let them make their own decisions when they can. wouldnt you have liked the choice? fear is a huge issue in northern ireland and if something is different it is generally avoided - maybe we should educate our further generation a bit more than previous generations- they are our future!

Posted by kelly | 22.09.08, 10:31 GMT

Derek must think parents are going to sit back like controlled, compliant schoolchildren while their rights are stolen by a bunch of self-certifying educationalists and bureaucrats. Has he ever examined the budget and outturn statements for the provision of schooling in Northern Ireland? The real issue about the loss of opportunity for working class children is that their teachers do not teach, encourage, promote or challenge them sufficiently. The evidence is revealed in the numbers of pupils NOT ENTERED FOR THE TRANSFER TEST - not those getting in to grammar school. Perhaps he can get Michael Wardlow to explain how it works.

Posted by Pro Tanto Quid | 18.09.08, 14:01 GMT

I am anything but confusing The Parental Alliance for Choice in Education with the GBA and AQE. Why is it that proportionately fewer working class children get into grammar schools? Have they got choice? Has this not got something to do with the money and resources that are invested in working class children? One needs to realise that money is the arbitar of choice If free reign were given to those who want choice we would have the Jedi Warriors setting up schools, as it is they course run by Queens! Choice is only available within bounds and one of the bounds is money.Choice that the Parental Alliance for Choice in Education is talking about is a luxury not a right, which most of Europe doesn't have

Posted by Derek | 17.09.08, 11:38 GMT

Derek clearly has The Parental Alliance for Choice in Education confused with teacher/school-led organisations such as GBA or AQE.
It is insulting to parents to read disingenuous statements from "insiders" insisting that they know best. What Derek fails to acknowledge is that currently parents make the choice of school for their children. New arrangements remove choice. Grammar schools are the antithesis of comprehensives. No one is forcing Derek or others to seek a place at a grammar. The right of parents to choose is paramount. Parents already pay for this choice.

Posted by Parental Alliance for Choice in Education | 15.09.08, 09:21 GMT

Church run schools shouldnt get a penny in funding from the taxpayer. If parents want "religious education" (oxymoronic concept) for their children let them (or their churches) pay for it themselves. This segregation by religion, gender and 11 plus results must cost an absolute fortune and rather than dealing with it the last PM even wanted to extend it to the mainland. Absolute madness !

Posted by Mike | 12.09.08, 15:44 GMT

Religion is not just a subject, it is a way of life. And many of us see schooling as a large and important part of life. To not have religion in school is to have atheism in school for my part.
That's fine if you are athiest. But to make ALL schools follow that blueprint ?

People of religion have built schools and provided teachers and institutions. The secular state has taken this over in many western countries in the last century.
but i do not believe the secular state has the right to go 180 degrees and push religion out of the system.
Atheists are free of course to get together and build schools. I have no complaint about that.
I have no complaint that atheists should try to do the same via the government - fine.
But to spread your belief to all schools - that's where i have to disagree.
The idea that no religion is 1) preferable, 2) acceptable to all, 3) neutral or 4) what should happen in a secular state ; is one of those beliefs.

Posted by sibulan | 12.09.08, 05:55 GMT

Michael,
i respect that other people should not have beliefs foistered upon them, as far as we can possibly can.
But i do not share your belief that schooling should be free of religion.
I do not share your belief that not having religion in schools is not the same as atheism.
As a result i don't share your belief that keeping religion out of school means schooling is acceptable to all. It certainly isn't acceptable to me for starters.
I don't share anothers posters belief that religion is iron age superstition. In fact i have the opposite belief that if not for religion we wouldn't even have got to the stone age let alone the modern age.
I don't share any of those beliefs. should they be foistered on me ?

Posted by sibulan | 12.09.08, 05:48 GMT

One wonders if the Parental Alliance for Choice in Education are prepared to pay for the choice they hold so dear, or are they merely happy to poach pupils from the secondary sector as the school population declines numerically. The Alliance must be joking when they state that Grovenor Grammar, Belfast Royal Academy and Methodist College are not comprehensives; one only has to examine the 11 plus results and their intakes over the past few decades to realise what is happening. I have taught in both grammar and secondary sectors and it did not take a Pauline 'road to Damascus' experience for me to realise what was happening to second level education in Northern Ireland. Take a reality pill and embrace an inclusive state system of secondary education that exists in the majority of Europe without the inequity of academic selection of the type we have here. In an inclusive system children of all faiths and denominations would come together as a matter of course.

Posted by Derek | 11.09.08, 19:58 GMT

Michael Wardlow (presumably the Chief Executive of the Northern Ireland Council for Integrated Education) states " integrated schools, where children of all faiths come together to build relationships for a new shared future. These schools operate within a Christian rather than a secular ethos."
Does he mean Grosvenor Grammar, Belfast Royal Academy, The Methodist College none of which are comprehensives or just his (the government's) version of integrated?

Posted by Parental Alliance for Choice in Education | 11.09.08, 12:58 GMT

So you have strong religious views, and you have children of school age. Air your religious views to your children out of school time and keep religion out of education.

Then, Catholic parents can be sure their children are not being subjected to Protestant views, Protestant parents can be sure their children are not being subjected to Catholic views.

And us atheist can be sure our children are not having Iron Age superstitious bull preached to them.

Where’s the problem? Get religion out of education

Posted by Man created God | 11.09.08, 12:54 GMT

Sibulan said "But don't arbitrarily foister your beliefs about this on my children." Are non-Christians not entitled to the same? Why should your beliefs be imposed on them? The point of keeping religion out of school is so that it is acceptable to ALL, not just Christians (and more specifically in this case just Catholic and Protestant). You don't want other's views imposed on you but are quite happy to do so onto others? It's not as if modern schools teach Atheism as a subject.

Posted by Michael | 11.09.08, 11:31 GMT

The Church has played the primary role in education of western civilisation for centuries. It's establishment, funding and growth.
In the last 100 years national states have taken over that role.
In the last couple of generations there has been a big push to get religion out of the schools completely in spite of the history of Western civilisation.
I don't agree with those people and think it is completely arrogant to say that religion should not be part of schooling.
If you have that belief then you are entitled to it for your own children, not for mine.
Joint faith schools in Northern Ireland are a good thing.
That they continue to have a religious organisation is more than acceptable to me. For those that don't want that then they are free not to send their children there. But don't arbitrarily foister your beliefs about this on my children.

Posted by sibulan | 11.09.08, 09:46 GMT

Integrated education - Yes - sooner the better
Run by Churches - No -- remove religion from children schools
Schools should only teach 3Rs etc to allow
children to gain skills for future careers
Religon Teach children all religons and let them
make their own decisions when they can.
REMOVE EARLY INDOCTRINATION BY PRIESTS AND MINISTERS

Posted by Buddy | 10.09.08, 21:39 GMT

As a parent living in Northern Ireland I firmly support the education of children together, regardless of faith BUT please do not build more schools. We already have enough schools and enough teachers and the answer is NOT to build more and start again, but find some way of bringing together kids using our existing infrastructure.

Posted by Mel | 10.09.08, 19:38 GMT

I can't understand why "religion" seems to be such an important part of the education system in NI. Surely, education should be secular and not connected to ANY faith, as government should be.. If parents want to send their children to "faith run schools" then let them do it privately - and pay for the privilege! Taking the clergy completely out of the school system is needed and then, maybe, the next generation growing up will be a lot more tolerant of each other!

Posted by m e crawford | 10.09.08, 17:44 GMT

Why must religion play a part in education at all? Has an integrated school system been considered that does not pander to any particular "faith base" and one that just gets simply down to the teaching and education of our children? I believe there must be a reasonable compromise that respects ALL cultures, faith and tradition. The question is whether joint management of schools can be accomplished within the Catholic and Protestant churches combined. Having grown up in the Catholic school system in Northern Ireland (during the troubles) I have my doubts. Look around you... have you noticed that we live in an integrated society. It's not ALL about Catholic & Protestant; and what about the others faiths; do they not rate in this debate???
Keep Religion at home, in the churches, mosques, synogogues & ALL places of worship and get on with the business of giving our children the best possible education, developement and preparation of life skills for the future. It's time to move on N.I.

Posted by JMC | 10.09.08, 17:26 GMT

In England, a variety of organisations have come together to oppose segregation of children in schools by faith (Faith schools may be Blair's most damaging legacy,
> Guardian September 2). "Equal but separate" is never an acceptable way to provide public services, least of all in education. Our education system operates along those lines for 95% of schoolchildren, reflecting our history and deep-seated societal fractures. There are, however, 20,000 pupils attending 60 parent-driven integrated schools, where children of all faiths come together to build relationships for a new shared future. These schools operate within a Christian rather than a secular ethos. Faith, as distinct from denominationalism, does not need to lead to division; it can also be a vehicle to deliver radical outcomes as in our integrated schools. Churches need to become involved in creating new ways of being together rather than remaining bystanders.

Posted by michael wardlow | 10.09.08, 12:13 GMT

As a Belfast born catholic I have always advocated that this would be fhe best way forward.I truly hope it happens.

Posted by d r holland | 09.09.08, 23:33 GMT

Teachers are also segreged by our school system. A teacher who has not been trained with a Catholic teaching certificate is not able to teach within the maintained sector (unless working as a substitute teacher). This basically cut the number of jobs a Protestant teacher can apply for by half. As a Protestant teacher I find this ironic as I have taught mostly Catholic children for the past 15 years in both Integrated and Controlled schools. I find it insulting and offensive in these modern times that the Maintained sector don't consider non-Catholics worthy of teaching in their schools.

Posted by jane | 09.09.08, 22:45 GMT