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Belfast riots: ‘It was just a bunch of yahoos who came to Ardoyne and left carnage behind’
Thursday, 16 July 2009
Trouble at Ardoyne shops in north Belfast. Trouble flared in the build up to the parade passing the shops on its way back from the main Belfast march.
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The people of Ardoyne have been left facing the aftermath of two nights of dissident rioting sparked by an Orange parade. Margaret Canning spent the day speaking to residents about the violence
Least said, soonest mended, seemed to be the outlook of residents keen to get on with their ordinary routine.
Two women in their seventies who have lived in the area for most of their lives didn’t want to air any views about Monday night, which saw 21 police officers injured and a 28-year-old man arrested, or Tuesday’s repeat rioting.
Orange parades and riots did not represent the Ardoyne they knew and regarded as a pleasant, neighbourly place to live.
But others were eager to express frustration in two directions — at the Orange Order for parading through a nationalist area and not taking an alternative route, and at rioters who attracted unwelcome attention to Ardoyne.
Thomas Maguire (42) recently bought the Foggy Dew off-licence along the now notorious shop fronts.
“I feel a mixture of things. I can understand frustration at watching Orangemen march but I can’t condone violence,” he said.
“The problem is typical Belfast. How do you explain it? It’s 100-years-old and becomes, in a weird sort of way, normal.
“If parades would go off peacefully, that would be ok, but at the same time, these parades are triumphal and sectarian.”
Mr Maguire believes politics is the answer. “I have faith in Sinn Fein that they will solve the problem. There’s a place for everybody on both sides.”
In principle, Mr Maguire said the Orange Order can walk past the shops, “but it should be managed in a better way and they should talk to community representatives”.
He added: “I agree with Gerry Kelly’s (Sinn Fein MLA and junior minister) assessment that dissidents are behind the trouble, and I think dissidents are wrong to think they can unite people around a sectarian issue like a parade”.
Decorator Billy Mackin (51) had harsh words for the rioters and took a dim view of the Orange Order.
“I thought the riots were disgraceful. People are still trying to get past what’s been happening in the last 40 years. It was just a bunch of yahoos who just came up here and left carnage behind them.”
His solution wasn’t about stopping rioters, though. “Stop the parade coming down,” he said.
Mr Mackin did not feel the Orange Order represented a laudable tradition. “I have Protestant friends and Protestants in my family and they all agree, it’s not about Protestantism. It is sectarian,” he added.
Sinn Fein councillor Margaret McClenaghan said she came to Brompton Park on Tuesday night to try and control the situation. “It’s very difficult to try and control things when adults are encouraging things and winding kids up to use petrol bombs and paint bombs.” She said that children as young as 10 or 11 were involved in the violence, with some “wee totes”, who were even younger, taking part in the rioting.
Mrs McClenaghan saw some parents come up on Monday night to take their children away once they realised there was trouble.
But adults from Ardoyne were also involved, she said. “If they have an axe to grind they should address the source of the problem, not use children.”
Thomas Crawford said he watched rioters rampage across the area he has lived in for six decades on his TV.
“It’s time they gave it a rest. I myself have no problem with the Orange Order walking down the road,” he said.
In fact, as a child he went up to the field on the Twelfth with a Protestant friend, but said: “that would be a bit dodgy now”.
Mr Crawford summed up the scene on Wednesday: “It’s all quiet on the northern front.”
But he admitted he wouldn’t have been averse to some street fighting in Belfast as a youngster.
“We had to then because the B-Specials would come in and shoot all round them. But there’s no B-Specials now.”
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Comments
75 Comments
The feared Bebo website of the dissidents, who was highlighted in the press several months ago, is still active on that website. How come they have not pulled it off the net?
Posted by Michael | 17.07.09, 10:47 GMT
Robert Murphy makes a good point. It's usually the Unionist community that make Northern Ireland look like a violent backwater. this time it's us. Parents, I have no sympathy with the Orange Order and no desire to see them marching anywhere near me, but I think enougn is enough, and it's time to get a grip on your kids and get out there and stop this nonsense.
Posted by Tony | 17.07.09, 08:24 GMT
If northern ireland is going this way there will not be peace for public and our kids become criminals and not going to get educated resulting they become alcoholic and drugged so parents should take step to bring them in right way.Both religions are here to think about where we going. Are we going back to 15th century if not,take amicable solution and not take provocative action each other. If parents not take good steps to bring peace and bring your young kids educated rather sending them into the street for fighting and make them criminals the consequences will be worse and govt will force to recruit employees from foriegn countries to cover shortage of skilled jobs here in this case don't irritate to receive foreingers to work in your work place.
Posted by Samaritan | 17.07.09, 08:22 GMT
as a veteran it is despicable by dissedents attempting 2 upsurp Law and order
Posted by Angus | 17.07.09, 05:11 GMT
The thing that disturbs me the most is that the photos taken of the rioting during the past few days all show crowds of people standing there, watching these thugs destroy their own neighborhood. In the photo gallery, there is a photo that shows a mother with a very young child standing in the background watching this. There are several other young children in the other photos. I cannot imagine what seeing this violence and mayhem has done to these children. It must have been terrifying for them to witness this! The photos only capture one moment in time, but it doesn't appear that the parents were trying to take their children away from this. I can only hope that the parents got their families out of this dangerous situation right away. The violence will only continue to the next generation if the young ones believe that it is perfectly okay to behave like this.
Posted by Stephanie | 17.07.09, 01:50 GMT
I saw some Protestant boys as well calling and texting on the Twaddell avenue two days ago when I drove by. Sad situation
Posted by Michael | 17.07.09, 00:51 GMT
This is sad. My husband and I were just in Belfast and we had a wonderful time. This is really going to hurt the whole city. People will not go to Belfast if this is going on. Parents must put there hate away and take control of their children before one of them or someone else gets hurt. It is a shame that a beautiful city like Belfast, her proud peoples can do this to her. It is time to work together so more people will come and see her like my husband and I did. The people were so friendly and welcoming. I will pray for everyone.
Joanne ..........Edmonton
Posted by Joanne | 17.07.09, 00:49 GMT
This is a typical provicational and defiant showing of two fractions of The North Irish society. Why can't the Orangemen, just march in an area where they will not offend, thus putting a stop to the deliberate slap in the face, and keep the peace. Its bad enough, that they still defiantly walk and laugh in the face of Republican Irish, even after the troubles have subsided. But by continuing their blatant parading of strength and defiance, they will ALWAYS, break open old wounds...Again...just march in a "not so offensive area of town"..Yes yes, they have a right to walk where they want, bla bla, but surely for the short amount of time it takes to walk down the roads that they offend, isnt it better to stop the violence. It's easy to say the parents of these kids are to blame, but its very very hard to control teenagers......I know...I have one.......It's a volitile combination, of hormones, anger, resentment, and past history, all boiled up into one package.
Posted by Anne Marie | 16.07.09, 23:32 GMT
keep it up yuh stupid cowards.......lets the other side know what you would love to do to them. nothing like keeping them prepared.or else.............. riot during the easter marches because they celebrate a loss. go figure eh!
Posted by billy | 16.07.09, 23:02 GMT
Condemning and appealing to these types of people will not solve the issues at hand. Strong measures must be taken by the authorities against those responsible for committing these crimes against the state. For too long it has been 'hands off' against criminals in the British Isles. Draconian to some,justice to others;put these wrongdoers away,and bring back a form of Borstal for those too young to be sent to prison. In Borstal teach them discipline,and respect for others. Adult offenders put to meaningful work,and have the prisons run by the State,and not the prisoners.
Posted by RMS | 16.07.09, 22:52 GMT
Teenage thugs attacked 4 houses on the lower ligoniel road, 2 cars damaged, 2 houses paint-bombed and windows broken. An elderly woman in her 70's was left badly shaken. They then targetted cars going both up and down this main arterial route in an attempt to draw the police into another riot point. This on a stretch of the road with no loyalist flags, over a mile from Ardoyne and no where near the marching route.
When Ardoyne burns, the whole of North Belfast suffers.
Posted by Realist | 16.07.09, 22:38 GMT
unfortunately, these thugs have portrayed NI (yet again) as a region, no sensible tourist / investor would touch................
so much damage again........... and its EXTREMELY unlikely to end this century !
very sad indeed........
Posted by robert murphy | 16.07.09, 22:23 GMT
We were baracaded into our streets that run off the crumlin road from 3pm on 13th July when the march didnt pass up the road until after 8pm & our only way out of our street is via the crumlin road. Our human rights are completely disregarded, especially when I was refused by the PSNI to go back to my house from getting a loaf and this was only at 6pm!!! I had to show ID and prove I lived across the road, even then I was refused until a community worker verified were I lived. How can this be allowed in this day and age??
The majority of the bandsmen didnt hurl any abuse as I've witnessed in recent years, but as for they're supporters, they were a bunch of drunken millys who hurled all sorts of sectarian abuse & need their mouths rinsed with bleach. It's no surprise that tensions rose & trouble broke out when the PSNI were blocking our roads from 3pm, showed no respect for local residents and did nothing when locals' houses were attacked! Look at it through a local eyes b4 u mouth off!
Posted by Ash | 16.07.09, 21:47 GMT
What has happened is that the "Peace Process" has NOT reached all populations in NI. If the Protestant population REALLY wanted to help the process they could easily choose a diffeent route...it is provocative, and everybody understands that if u provoke enough you will eventually get a reaction...WELL CONGRATS YOU GOT IT!
Posted by Irishlad | 16.07.09, 20:45 GMT
We are talking about a small parade at 8/9 am ,passed empty shops between prod twaddell and catholic ardoyne.
Also. prods in twaddell , mainly elderly are under constant attackfrom these young thugs.fair play to shinners , they are trying to take balanced view and control problem.
Posted by norman | 16.07.09, 19:44 GMT
the orange order have no rights to march past the ardoyne shops no matter what the parades commission says, that it the 100 % opinion of the people who live in the area. How can that be ignored? These are outdated sectarian victory parades that have no place in the 21st century. Dont forget the disgraceful behaviour imposed on the innocent school children of holy cross...is it any wonder the kids choose violence?
Posted by mark | 16.07.09, 19:28 GMT
It seems that the shops at Ardoyne could be the problem. Perhaps the roiters could burn these premises down and that would remove one of the variables in the equation. Yes Bren I did mean WRITE (a slip of the index finger) however responsible parenting is still required.
Posted by Gerald. | 16.07.09, 19:10 GMT
Have I missed something? Did the orange parade not pass by on Monday? So what caused the riots on Tuesday and Wednesday? I'm thinking it might be a good idea if people had to pass an intelligence test before they were allowed to have children then we wouldn't have so many of these brainless idiots of whatever persuasion running around causing mayhem.
Posted by james | 16.07.09, 18:19 GMT
It's any excuse for them to riot and cause mayhem, PSNI should go in heavy handed and deal with it once and for all.
As for their parents, they shouldn't be allowed to have the little brats in the first place if they can't control them (or won’t control them) this is costing us who work and pay taxes a lot of money that could be spent on hospitals in Northern Ireland.
Also not surprised to see some idiots bringing the British Army into it.
Posted by Linda | 16.07.09, 17:25 GMT
Where are the parents of these children?? And what sort of an example is this setting to even younger children? These mindless idiots should be identified and named and shamed - Northern Ireland is a fantastic place to live and these thugs aren't welcome.
Posted by Al | 16.07.09, 17:14 GMT
75 Comments