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Bus company warned over ‘No God’ signs

Saturday, 17 January 2009

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Firebrand Free Presbyterian Minister the Rev David McIlveen has called on Translink “to think very carefully” before accepting the anti-Christian advertising on buses that has sparked a fierce debate in Great Britain.

East Londonderry MP Gregory Campbell has called on Christian groups to launch a counter campaign on buses stating ‘But What If There is?’

Fellow MP David Simpson from Upper Bann — who has signed the Campbell motion — wants the bus company to respect the principles of Christian drivers.

And Free Presbyterian Moderator the Rev Ron Johnstone says that while he is “extremely saddened by this slight on the Christian Faith”.

“It is all rebounding on the atheists who are slighting Christianity in this self-publicising way”.

Mr Johnstone added: “At least it is opening a debate, and people are coming out and saying yes there is a God. The bus advertising is a message of no hope. Ours is one of eternal hope.”

The Northern Ireland controversy has been prompted by the stance of Southampton driver Ron Heather who refused to take out a bus which carried the slogan in the £140,000 campaign sponsored by the British Humanist Association.

“I was in a dilemma,” he said. “But there was no way I could drive the bus and I told that to the inspectors.”

Mr McIlveen said: “I would hope that Translink would respect the principles of driver should these adverts come here. Obviously one cannot dictate to the bus company whether or not to accept these adverts which are an affront to those who holds their faith so dear. I commend Mr Heather for his courage and it is pleasing to see someone stand up for Christ.”

David Simpson, who is also a Gospel singer, commented: “The British Humanist Society is exercising its freedom with this advertising, but it does not change the facts. God cannot be wished away, and it’s up to any bus company to respect the feeling of Christian bus drivers if they do not wish to drive vehicle propagating this false message.”

Moderator Mr Johnstone said that the message was “very saddening”, and added: “But at least it is making people think about God and I believe most will conclude that there is a God of love and compassion. It is rebounding on the advertisers.”

Professor Richard Dawkins from the British Humane Society said that the existence of God was “as unlikely as the tooth fairy” adding that he would have preferred the word ‘probably’ to have been left out of the slogan.

Meanwhile, nobody was available at Translink for comment when the Belfast Telegraph contacted the company yesterday afternoon.

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62 Comments

Claims about the existence of a god are no different to any other truth claims. People must be free to disagree. Evidence can be presented, for and against. The claim can be evaluated according to the evidence. People are entitled to their own opinions, but they're not entitled to their own facts.

Personally, I'm offended when people assert that a god exists. Perhaps this will illustrate to people why it's a bad idea for free speech to be governed by whether people will be offended. The right to offend is the single most crucial component of free speech. If you're saying things that everybody agrees with, you don't need free speech.

Faith sounds lovely, until you realise that it's indistinguishable from gullibility.

Will bus drivers be free to decline to drive buses advertising a brand of beer that they don't like? Is there a difference?

Posted by Kieran | 13.05.09, 00:06 GMT

Trust you Northern Irish to react like that. You need this campaign and you need this message a lot more than the mainland.

Posted by Ryan | 21.01.09, 22:27 GMT

I am 100 percent behind putting this slogan on buses in Northern Ireland. Its most likely never going to happen, as our provence is run by 'Fire and brimstone' 'You're going to hell for line dancing' narrow minded biggots on both sides of our communities, but its benefits would far outweigh its negatives. So what if one bus driver and some MP's dont like it! I am lucky enough to be in contact with many people i went to school with and have a circle of friends approaching 100. NONE of whom go to church and yet have still turned out not to be biggots and brainwashed idiots. Our MP's christian ideals are so prehistoric it cant be contemplated. Wake up and smell the next generation you fools. People worrying and stressing themselves out over what morals theyve been tought in a money making operation on sunday mornings has such a detrimental effect on our health and well being.

Very one sided i know, but im enjoying my life to its full and anyway..... im going to valhallah!

Posted by Ryan | 20.01.09, 12:11 GMT

Burt BURT:RE: The plane that crashed in New York river. Some passengers prayed. Others read the flight safety card. Guess which was more useful?

I'm going for the praying as the plane did not sink and no-one lost their lives and no injuries were reported. Everyone is hailing it as a miracle, against all odds etc. The flight saftey card would have no power over the stability of the plane in the water, etc., etc.

Thank God for those that prayed and thank God for protecting all of them. God loves us all, even if we all don't love him.

Posted by Colin | 19.01.09, 22:56 GMT

Where'd my earlier post go then BT?!

Was it deleted by the great moderator in the sky...did my pathetic message meet with St Peter before his morning cup of coffee? Is it now tormented in the fierce hell set aside for unsuitable posts?

Or maybe it was so good it's in heaven right now?

I could go on, who knows if this will be posted but if a human being (as opposed to a fictional character) reads this, a suggestion for you.

Why not, when a comment is deleted, replace it with a generic message to explain that a comment has been deleted?

Posted by Roy | 19.01.09, 20:21 GMT

Silly me in thinking that we live in a free society. I attend the church of my choice pretty well every week, I at the same time am 100% in support of the right of this group to present their point of view. Let us remember that the history of Christian groups is indeed very sad when it comes to the right of people to think for themselves. To all the bible thumping groups that are quoted in this story, lighten up!

Posted by James Doyle | 19.01.09, 16:54 GMT

well said Karen
CHRISTopher is the only person in Northern Ireland with a degree although I notice a lack of professional qualification
Burt must have been on that flight in New York to know EXACTLY what went on

Posted by conor | 19.01.09, 11:53 GMT

Interesting to note that only 1 solitary bus driver objected to this advert and even he reneged on his christian principles and got back on the buses. Rev McIlveen is speaking for a brainwashed minority!

Posted by MrP | 18.01.09, 23:20 GMT

I believe in God and I welcome these advertising boards. Christians as usual are campaigning against freedom of speech. Do the Christian drivers not want to drive buses advertising products that encourage commercialisation and greed? Or because they feature women as sex symbols? As usual, Christians have their priorities all wrong. Crazy.

Posted by Bill | 18.01.09, 23:14 GMT

Everyone follows a different religion, and in each of those religions people understand the beliefs differently, and then theres a few nutters involved. Will there be bibles thrown at bus windows over this? I hope not.

Just to calm the religious people down, your religion is not to judge people but let god judge, so simmer down, and allow free speech, and respect it. This campaign is there to let christians know they don't call all the shots, and not everyone is prepared to believe anything based on fear and control thousands of yeas ago.

Reading down some of the comments realy shows some people are reading too many sci fi comics.
Liked the comment about god paying child support for 2000 yrs haha.

Posted by D | 18.01.09, 17:34 GMT

Some Christians amongst us would have us believe in the fairytales of fire and brimstone. They do not get it. Many people do not believe in the existence of God. I do not care what these believers get up to. I believe in freedom of speech and also in worshipping whatever people want - be it God or a tree. However, I also demand that these "believers" also respect the views of those who do not share their beliefs. Hardly a lot to ask I would have thought.
It does strike me as odd that these people who believe so staunchly in God are getting so hot under their collective collars. Surely if they are so certain of their beliefs a poster on the side of bus should not vex them.

Posted by John | 18.01.09, 17:15 GMT

The Free Presbyterian Church is quite happy to place pro-religious adverts on buses and to hand out leaflets in cities and towns across NI. But it seems, not for the first time, they show amazing hypocrisy by complaining when others do exactly the same thing, only promoting something they do not believe in. Do they care that THEIR adverts may offend non-Christians (of whom there are many), or worry about offending people when they spew their anti-homosexual bigotry? No. The simple fact of the matter is that this is a free, democratic country with freedom of speech at its core. If it is OK for people to advertise a pro-God message (which for the record I think is perfectly acceptable), then it MUST also be equally right to advertise a no God message. Evelyn Beatrice Hall famously wrote "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - a principle Rev David McIlveen and David Simpson, who I am sure would regard himself as a democrat, should support.

Posted by Jack | 18.01.09, 17:07 GMT

Translink buses have carried advertising for Christian organisations.

Humanists did not attack the buses. Humanist bus drivers did not refuse to do the work that they are paid to do. Humanists did not even complain about religious propaganda on public transport.

Instead, Humanists accepted that we live in an open society and that people have the right to express their beliefs.

The threats and objections from our fellow Christian citizens when it is suggested that Translink buses might carry Humanist advertising are totally out of order. Any attempt to block the Humanist adverts will offend against Equality legislation. It would also offend against all notions of common decency, fair play and freedom of expression.

It is deplorable that Christians should react in such an intolerant, bullying way when Humanists express a contrary opinion. It makes their Christian principles look like hypocritical cant. If their god really did exist, he or she or it would be ashamed.

Posted by Belfast Humanist | 18.01.09, 16:27 GMT

let Mr Mc Ilveen & co raise the money for a "There is a god so you better start worrying campaign" if thats how they feel - great to see so many comments supporting this campaign and their right to freedom of speech.

Posted by kev | 18.01.09, 15:03 GMT

RE: The plane that crashed in New York river. Some passengers prayed. Others read the flight safety card. Guess which was more useful?

Posted by Burt BURT | 18.01.09, 14:42 GMT

"Now here is the news. Hundreds of buses across the United kingdom were simultaneously destroyed by bolts of lightning today...."
here's a thing - if a driver won't drive a bus with the advert in question, he might well be committing an offence, because it is illegal to discriminate against people on the grounds of religious belief.
an agnostic, humanist, atheist, etc who can't get the bus because of the the driver's religious prejudice could feel discriminated against.
the objections against this advert are merely the egotistical tub-thumpings of self-important holy Joes. the Rev. McIlveen (and poor sensitive drivers) might like to consider Jesus Christ's instruction to carry a soldier's pack an extra mile if ordered to carry it one mile. passengers must be harder to carry than enemy kit if you are a "Christian".

Posted by Frank | 18.01.09, 12:41 GMT

what a joke this guy is, telling the rest of us what to think.

Posted by Joe Murray | 18.01.09, 11:00 GMT

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Psalms 14:1

What does this have to tell you about our society?

Posted by Maurice | 18.01.09, 03:40 GMT

if these posters come down because of complaints from Christians then EVERY and I mean EVERY billboard for alpha courses comes down as well as anything slightly intimating the existence of a god and every street preacher is banned and removed too.

Posted by Christopher Thomas Tomkinson BA (Hons) | 18.01.09, 03:00 GMT

Years of methodical research & intelligently applied reason long ago determined that the two craziest kinds of mortals are: Those who believe in god as defined by the world's multi-trillion dollar religious industry, and those who cite it as evidence that there is no god & man is life's supreme being.
How wrong they both are & one can only attribute their ignorance to adopting whatever belief best suits the emotional state of mind fostered by their elders during childhood.
Jock

Posted by jock | 18.01.09, 02:05 GMT