Iris’s ‘God’s law’ remark was a mistake says McGuinness
Saturday, 19 July 2008
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Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness last night called for religion to be kept out of politics, after demands by a prominent unionist for government to uphold God’s law on abortion.
Democratic Unionist MP Iris Robinson, wife of First Minister Peter Robinson, hit out at pro-choice campaigners who have demanded a relaxation of the abortion laws in Northern Ireland.
But Mr McGuinness — who shares Northern Ireland’s top government office with Mr Robinson — came out against the comments.
“I think it was a mistake,” Mr McGuinness said of the remarks.
“In the society that we live in now with many newcomers to our shores, and in many democracies throughout the world, we have a situation where many people within society believe in different things and believe in different gods. So what god are we talking about?
“Is it the Free Presbyterian god, is it the Church of Ireland god, is it the god that Catholics adhere to, is it the Mormon god, is it the Jehovah’s, the Islamic?”
He added: “We need to be very wise and recognise that we can hurt all sorts of people’s feelings.”
His comments followed the latest controversy sparked by DUP representative Iris Robinson, who recently attracted criticism for branding homosexuality an abomination.
At the time Mrs Robinson said she condemned those responsible for attacks on members of the gay community, but said that her views on homosexuality were drawn from The Bible.
Yesterday she hit out at pro-choice campaigners who have demanded a relaxation of abortion law in Northern Ireland.
Pregnancies can only be terminated where there is a major threat to the health of the woman and Mrs Robinson argued against any change to the law to bring it in line with the rest of the UK.
She said: “The Government has the responsibility to uphold God’s law morally... the Catholic Church as well as the Evangelicals and all the other churches across Northern Ireland all stand by what we say — that abortion is morally wrong.”
She added: “The Government are there to represent the morals of the scriptures.”
Her DUP colleague Edwin Poots — a former minister in the Northern Ireland government — defended Mrs Robinson’s right to argue religious standards should be reflected in the law.
He told the BBC the laws of many governments reflect scripture: “We in government have a role to ensure that Northern Ireland is a better place.”
Pro-choice groups claimed the Northern Ireland government was becoming a theocracy. But there was widespread criticism from other parties of Mrs Robinson’s latest comments. Politicians said the Assembly had to ensure government legislated for Christian and non-Christian alike.
The nationalist SDLP said the affair damaged the Northern Ireland government and in particular the Office of First and Deputy First Minister, coming at a time when the DUP and Sinn Fein are divided over a series of issues.
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There should be no reason why a Christian cannot live in modern scoiety but don't confuse a modern society with a secular society. Abortion does not equal modern.
Posted by Oliver | 22.07.08, 00:16 GMT
Right or wrong this is theres consequences on whatever decisions or outcome its gonna be.
Why can't we discuss about how to prevent being a victim of rape which could lead to some woman choosing to abort there child or to tackle the other cause of abortion,like people should have sex till they are responsible and ready to have a child or bring up a child.
Well is it that because some people could not control there lustful feelings...Please comment on this! Thankyou
Posted by Chanice | 21.07.08, 14:44 GMT
McGuinness is right. The Government is there to serve all the people, not just fundamentalist Christians. Iris Robinson's comments are insulting to many who believe in God and probably everyone who doesn't.
Posted by Yip | 21.07.08, 12:05 GMT
It is very easy for Iris Robinson in her Ivory Tower to stir up religeous fervour to get the backing of her constituents. How about focusing your efforts on what really matters to the majority. Health, education, work... or would that be to hard?
I agree that this is a Christian nation and as such the law of the land should reflect that but within reason as we are also living in a modern society. The fact that the people supposedly running our affairs fail to grasp this is worrying.
Posted by StopTheRot | 21.07.08, 08:55 GMT
What nonsense McGuinness is talking - but then he is a master of nonsensical talking. Iris Robinson is to be admired, as a Christian politician who stands for the Truth of God`s Word, which is above every man-made law.
Five of the 10 Commandments, given to us by the One True Living God who created the Universe, are encapsulated into the ordinary laws of every country in this world - including No. 6, which tells us that we are not to kill. Abortion is the murder of the unborn, it is against the law of God and also the law of man.
Posted by Neal | 21.07.08, 06:07 GMT
As a Roman Catholic Christian, I agree with Ms. Robinson. Ireland is a Christian nation jut like Israel is a Jewish nation and Iran is an Islamic nation. Other religions are welcome in Ireland and freely practise their religion per their custom. Mr. McGuinness misses this point. The law of the Christian God is one of truth and justice.
In regards to the scourge of abortion, it denys the right of the child and denys the reproductive rights of the father. The BMA kicked up a stink last year about the number of "botched" abortions - where abortions were performed unsucessfully and the baby was born. The majority of abortion taken place last year were not for primarily contraception.
For those that play the rapist card; women that have been raped and had their baby state that their baby has been a means of healing and closure and not the hearsay remark of "I would see the rapist in the child."
To kill a child is never a right.
Posted by Oliver | 21.07.08, 01:43 GMT
Fair play to Iris for her 'stand against' popular opinion and the 'gods' of others. Mr McGuinness obviously holds 'crowd pleasing' far above the sanctity of human life...shame.
Posted by Ken | 21.07.08, 01:15 GMT
Never thought I'd say this, but I agree with Martin on this issue. Religion should have no place in our government - mixing the two cheapens religion and government equally.
Besides, there is not one verse in any bible concerning abortion, and the prohibition on homosexuality is mentioned as frequently as the prohibition against the eating of shellfish.
I don't see Iris out protesting against the oyster eaters.
Posted by Chris | 21.07.08, 00:07 GMT
After reading your article, I think the most important issue here is the plight of the unborn.
I am from Belfast but live in the US. I am a former counselor for Birthright of Williamsburg, Virginia.
Only 5 weeks after conception, pain receptors appear around the mouth of the fetus, followed by nerve fibres, which carry stimuli to the brain. By 18 weeks, pain receptors have appeared throughout the body. (Around wk 6, the unborn child first responds to touch).
Most partial- birth abortions are performed in the 20-26 week range, some later. During this abortion, body parts are grasped at random with a long-toothed clamp, and ripped from the fetal body. The head is grasped and crushed.
Robert J. White MD., Ph.D Professor of Neurosurgery said... "an unborn child at 20 weeks gestation is fully capable of experiencing pain...without question abortion is a dreadfully painful experience".
Abortion stops a beating heart. We need to join as one to protect the unborn.
Posted by Kathleen (McAtamney)Stewart | 20.07.08, 20:18 GMT
Iris is spot on. She will have to give an account of herself to her Lord and Saviour. Silence on this issue is not an option. All the Churches agree, whether reformed or otherwise, that abortion is wrong.
Abortion outside of the conditions included in the Bourne judgement is morally wrong imo. It should only ever be performed to "save the yet more precious life of the mother". This includes a very serious risk to mental or physical health. Northern Ireland's law is as liberal as it needs to be on this matter.
Reference by Mr McGuinness to the potential hurt feelings of the advocates of erroneous cults and the generally Godless, does not alter the fact that killing the unborn on demand is a sinful action. Better to have our feelings hurt in this life, than to spend eternity paying for our rejection of God, who loves us and gives us our every breath. For anyone who has done this sad act there is forgiveness with God - repent, turn from your sin and put your trust in him.
Posted by Charly | 20.07.08, 17:52 GMT
i am completely pro - choice. No one has the right to comment on weather it is morally right. it is womens choice it his her body and her who would have to look after the child!!! people seem to forget theat there are my way to get pregant a women could be raped!!!! not are conception are consentual. people need to open the minds and close the mouths! yes everyone has the right to a opinion but it should be a individuals choice. women who are pregant and choose to have an abortion should have to go to england or scotland to have the procedure do. we should be like the rest of the uk. iris robision has cheek to being god into any conversion. it says that god loves everyone no matter what! so she has no right implyin other was.
Posted by rachel | 20.07.08, 15:43 GMT
Our unborn Dead
Concieved to be murdered, our unborn dead,
Eyes unable to see their plight,
Little souls for whom His Dear Heart bled,
Now wander in a Heavenly Light.
Little bodies carved with heathen skill,
Their blood flows into unknown canals,
Nerves still protesting, twitching still,
Never to be named in the Earth's Annals.
Millions of Angels, made here on Earth,
Millions of voices in a Heavenly Choir,
Praise the Lord who gave them birth,
And sing about His Majestic Power.
While here below, an unwanted soul,
Is placed in a heedless surgeons hand,
A bloody scalpel takes it's toll,
And severs silent, the maternal band.
Another Angel soars on high,
Brings a prayer from a planet of heavenly blue,
From the next whose end is nigh,
Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.
Joe Donnelly, Belfast, 2002
Just one question. Who gave Mr. McGuinness the authority to speak for any religion? He should stick to his own, if he has one...... Joe
Posted by Joe | 20.07.08, 10:09 GMT
Mr Magginis if he thinks government and religion shouldn't be mixed is quite right. Religion has been a blight on society since God said "Let there be light" and politicians have been trying to put out the light ever since.
Of course Mrs Robinson is absolutely right and she is not talking about 'religion' she is talking about 'faith' a whole different ball game. Those churches the Deputy Minister mentions are religions while Mrs Robinson is talking absolutes, because her God whom she serves by faith is an absolute.
He, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, absolutley condemns abortion and homosexuality. Whether we agree with Him or not is irrelevant He is not a democracy.
Muriel Australia
Posted by muriel | 20.07.08, 02:09 GMT
While, I am not a member of the same denominational church or political party as Mrs. Robinson, I cannot help, but feel sorry for those who are so iritated by her remarks. One would think that she said the greatest blasphemy or committed the most herendous crime, judging by the reaction of so many who are absolutely raging. Is it so uncomprehensible that someone who believes God's Word, the Bible would seek to make good laws which are in accord with that divinely inspired Word. What a sad society we have become, when everyone is expected to make decisions and talk as if God is dead, in order to maintain a politically correct form of neutrality. How one is expected to believe in the Lord, trust in His Word and rely on His grace, except from mondays to fridays, 9 to 5 is beyond me. We could do with a lot more Christian love in this country and a little less agnostic ignorance.
Posted by Maria | 19.07.08, 21:17 GMT
The intelligent and moral thinking of its' people caused untold misery for many people over some forty years!
Posted by RMS | 19.07.08, 20:30 GMT
Good old IRIS BANG ON THE BULL'S EYE AGAIN ,some of us try to curtail the Bigotry of all sorts that blights our Country , and then this outburst , some people should be hit with the GOOD book , never mind pontificating ( I like that word ) to anyone that will listen . The goodwill to all men lamp won't be shining in her house tonight.
Posted by SAIGEADIOR COLLAC ABU | 19.07.08, 20:23 GMT
It is rather naive of Mr McGuiness to argue that religion should be kept out of politics. For many people religion is the base on which they construct their moral systems. Others, like myself, find no need of a religious base and would use other arguments to back up our position on ethical questions. What matters ultimately is the moral position itself, no matter how it is arrived at. In matters which require ethical decisions the views of people who come from different cultural backgrounds should carry no more weight than is appropriate in a democracy and that is a function of the numbers of people who hold them. If Mr Mcguinness and his ilk are trying to argue that the views of huge numbers of local people should not carry the day, then he is not a democrat - but then when could anyone have ever suggested that he was?
Posted by Roy BLAIR | 19.07.08, 20:06 GMT
'We can hurt all sorts of people's feelings' said McGuinness, That's a bit rich coming from him
Posted by Roger McCutcheon | 19.07.08, 18:16 GMT
Mr McGuinness knows full well which God Iris Robinson was referring to. The ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD, maker of the universe, creater of mankind, but, like so many other politicians in so many other countries, he is SCARED to offend worshippers of FALSE gods. Glad we have one minister who is NOT as scared.
Posted by Colin | 19.07.08, 18:14 GMT
Scientifically, conception is the point in time where life begins, without intervention this is human, will become an adult like you or me.
Democratically, most people see the ending of a human life as wrong. Our government is the expression of the morality of the people.
Life is better in Northern Ireland than anywhere else because of the intelligent and moral thinking of its people.
We should be thankful that our government reflects this.
Posted by Steven Fhern Irelandarquhar | 19.07.08, 15:12 GMT