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Orde: Other forces would have used live rounds in Ardoyne
Saturday, 18 July 2009
Flashpoint: Police are confronted by rioters at Ardoyne shops during a third night of rioting this week
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Chief Constable Sir Hugh Orde has robustly defended Monday’s security operation during riots in Ardoyne — saying in many parts of the world police would have responded with “live fire”.
The PSNI chief was reacting to Sinn Fein’s Gerry Kelly who criticised the use of plastic bullets, calling it “a retrograde step”.
In an interview with the Belfast Telegraph, the Stormont junior minister said they should not have been used.
He has raised the matter with police, Northern Ireland Office Minister Paul Goggins and the Police Ombudsman.
“I phoned the Ombudsman to make sure there was an investigation into the use of plastic bullets,” Mr Kelly said.
“I don’t know how long it’s been since plastic bullets were used — it’s years.”
But the Chief Constable reacted by asking: “Has he got an alternative?”
Twenty-one officers were injured on Monday in violence orchestrated by dissident republicans during which a shot was fired and pipe-bombs thrown.
Police responded using 17 plastic bullets.
“I watched the events unfold,” Sir Hugh Orde told this newspaper, marking the first time he has spoken publicly about the riots.
“The care around the minimum use of force and human rights considerations were embedded in the operational thinking and deployment.”
“It was constantly reviewed and in my judgment the actions of the officers were entirely proportionate to the threat, and in many parts of the world I have absolutely no doubt that live fire would have been used in that situation.”
The Chief Constable monitored events from the PSNI command room.
“It is incredible that when being shot at my officers acted with the restraint they did,” he said.
On the issue of the use of plastic bullets, he said: “Everybody is strangely silent on what else we could have done.”
Sir Hugh who leaves his post in September to become President of the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO), accused dissidents of “trying to drag Northern Ireland backwards”.
He said they were “wrecking the lives of the people in north Belfast — the local residents”.
The Chief Constable also believes that dissidents are trying to further destabilise the situation by provoking a reaction from mainstream republicans.
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Comments
41 Comments
Hal you are funny ha-ha-ha... Oh oh I know this one. Answer: When they become a police force for all the people. Seriously they controlled themselves pretty well considering such a dangerous situation. Kids and someone brings guns.???
Posted by Car54 Where are you | 20.07.09, 23:18 GMT
After the banned Whiterock Orange parade three years ago, hundreds, yes, hundreds of shots were fired at Police by "loyalists". Tennent Street Police station was under constant fire. Vans and cars were torched and premises destroyed. At that time I do not recall Unionist politicians, or Orange letterwriters saying the Police should have used live rounds on the rioters. One shot was fired at Ardoyne.
Posted by Trevor | 20.07.09, 19:44 GMT
So, Hugh Ord was suggesting another Bloody Sunday then? And here was me thinking that Ord was the best chief constable we ever had, shows how wrong one can be! There was rioters on Bloody Sunday but the innocent got it, same again Hugh? You should be ashamed of yourself man. Why didn't you push back the drunken Orange hangers on at Twaddell Avenue at Ardoyne? Afraid?
Posted by Patrick | 20.07.09, 18:51 GMT
I agree , live rounds would be more appropriate.
Posted by frank | 20.07.09, 07:55 GMT
Dye the brats with fluorescent dye- embarrass them, and let them explain their behaviour to their parents.
Posted by Malachy McAnespie | 19.07.09, 19:06 GMT
Typical Sinn Fein, they always have to have a dig at the Police. They expect Police to stand there and be spat at, shot at and have pipe bombs thrown at them. When are Sinn Fein going to grow up and act like the "political" party they claim to be. Respect to the Police.
Posted by Hal | 19.07.09, 18:56 GMT
There is more colors in ULSTER than ORANGE. These socalled prades are not prades but ONE group of people pushing their views on all. ULSTER parade permit must be change by a clause would let all of legal groups be part of the given parade but no ONE single group only and it must be of full available public information.
Posted by phl | 19.07.09, 16:44 GMT
The Chief Constable is right what else can the police use? Everytime the PSNI even look at other non lethal devices Sinn Fein go crazy accusing them of buying new weapons to use soley to persecute Catholics. Yet when they use the non-lethal means at their disposal they are accused of using too much force.
What do SF want? No response to riots? Then they would accuse the PSNI of abandoning that community beacause it was Catholic. You cant have it both ways!
How can you be persecuted on both occasions give an alternative please? Oh and before anyone says water cannon SF protested about the use of these and so they are operated at reduced ie useless pressure.
Posted by Ryan | 19.07.09, 16:38 GMT
I agree. As soon as the bombs and bullets starts, the Police are entitled to open up with live fire. The human rights activists put normal Police lives after the scum that riot. Where are the parents of these children? These people are worth nothing. The Police Officers have families too, but I forgot they are normal families who don't riot, and destroy their own neighbourhoods. Take the handcuffs of the Officers, and let them defend themselves properly.
Posted by canuck | 19.07.09, 16:06 GMT
The OO should have NEVER have been let march through Ardoyne, Mr well knows that.
Posted by James Doyle | 19.07.09, 16:04 GMT
Hugh Orde is right in saying that 'in many parts of the world police would have responded with “live fire”.
But I don't think it's something to be proud of. It makes these thugs think they are untouchable. It doesn't matter on which side of the peaceline they live. Criminals are criminals.
Thugs succeeded in driving Roma people out from Belfast. Has anyone been prosecuted?! Then they tried to do the same with Indian, Polish and Muslim communities. Why wouldn't they? If they got away with that for the first time, they would for the second. And third. And fourth. And so on...
If the police don't stop them ....
YOU might be next!
Posted by Marta | 19.07.09, 13:19 GMT
I think the police would be able to do there jobs better if they had the support of the communities they police,the local people know who the ringleaders are,take them out,or expose them,we should learn from are past failures and not give republicans the ammunition,because the next thing will be a republican will get killed,then what????????????
Posted by David | 19.07.09, 10:02 GMT
The High King of Ireland could use the Organization of Christendom and Biblical Nations, possibly administered from facilities developed in Russia, to bring peace and prosperity, so that the extraterrestrial quarantine of our home planet for antisocial behavior can be lifted, and we can join interstellar civilization and extend our life spans from decades to centuries.
Posted by Richard D. Priest, Jr. | 19.07.09, 02:41 GMT
Strange that Orde mentioned live fire . N Ireland is part of the
U. K. Now just how many times have a British police in England fired even rubber bullets during a riot ?
Posted by Tommy Atlins | 19.07.09, 00:40 GMT
Live rounds SHOULD have been used, After all there was a weapon found and shots fired so ultimately the dissidents were prepared to fire live rounds at the police or the loyalists. Strange they cannot take their own medicine
Posted by Stuart | 19.07.09, 00:11 GMT
The police are clearly damned if they do and damned if they don't.
What do these vandals expect, to be just left alone to destroy everything around them and drag the country back to the 70's. If these hoodlums (and the ones behind it) are in the middle of a riot, they are there looking for trouble and when they find it they act surprised and don't want any consequences.
Why don't the police just leave them to it, its their own community and neighbourhoods they are destroying. If the residents of Ardoyne want to live in the middle of a war zone of their own making, let them. Who else really gives a darn.
Posted by ex-pat | 18.07.09, 23:38 GMT
Well done the PSNI, as the chief constable has rightly said, in any other country the police force would not have stood idly by.
Posted by Colin | 18.07.09, 22:41 GMT
am sure gerry kelly agrees that "live" ammuntion would have been used in most if not all civilised countries if their police had of came under fire and had petrol bombs thrown at them. right gerry... no more plastic bullets right!!!!
Posted by billy | 18.07.09, 22:34 GMT
am sure gerry kelly agrees that "live" ammuntion would have been used in most if not all civilised countries if their police had of came under fire and had petrol bombs thrown at them. right gerry... no more plastic bullets right!!!!
Posted by billy | 18.07.09, 22:33 GMT
Hugh Orde has no right to threaten anyone with the use of bullets. But then what does he care? (A) he is english & (B) he leaves for a cushy well paid job in barely a month's time. Hugh Orde, on your bike mate.
Posted by Greg | 18.07.09, 22:27 GMT
41 Comments