Row is brewing with Catholic Church over visionary claims at shrine
Monday, 2 November 2009
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A stand-off between Catholic Church authorities and a self-proclaimed visionary threatens to escalate into a major showdown next month.
Dubliner Joe Coleman claims the Virgin Mary appeared for a second time in three weeks at Knock Shrine on Saturday.
Around 15,000 followers gathered expectantly in the hope of witnessing a vision, with claims that the sun once again “danced in the sky”.
But the clergy is alarmed at the level of support for the “sightings”. The Archbishop of Tuam Michael Neary deplored the proclaimed phenomenon as not healthy and argued that it brings the Mayo Shrine into disrepute.
Dr Neary said the Knock apparition in 1879 was neither sought, nor expected.
The crunch is likely to come on December 8, an important event in the church calendar as the feast of the Immaculate Conception, and also the date on which Mr Coleman has predicted a third apparition.
A crowd estimate between 12,000 to 15,000 from all over Ireland and abroad gathered on Saturday. An apparition had been predicted for 3pm on Saturday by Mr Coleman, from Ballyfermot, the self-proclaimed “visionary of Our Blessed Lady”.
Up to 4,000 expectantly waited outside the Apparition Chapel, the spot of the original reported Knock apparition in August 1879.
That historic apparition put Knock on the spiritual map and unlike the recent phenomena it is officially approved by the Church.
By 3.20pm on Saturday, anticlimax was stirring among the crowd, most of whom looked constantly upwards at the sky with their cameras and mobile camera phones in active service.
Hundreds were leaving disappointed. One man, a native of Knock, scoffed at what he said resembled “the pagan art of sun-worship”. But suddenly, there were |shouts that the sun had been seen dancing close to the Basilica, and men, women and children rushed towards it to get a glimpse.
This rush brought them to the Basilica, where Mr Coleman had forecast Our Lady would appear with a message.
Up to 7,000 people squeezed into the vast circular arena, where Mr Coleman and fellow visionary Mr Henderson were positioned before the altar. Mr Henderson knelt rapt in prayer. Mr Coleman shifted between kneeling and standing.
From time to time, Mr Coleman picked up a crucifix and kissed it. Their silence contrasted with chattering from the crowd.
Shortly before 2.30pm a woman ascended the altar and called the crowd to stop talking in church.
“Sing a hymn,” she ordered. After a rendering of ‘Pray for the wanderer, pray for me' the woman led off the Rosary, interspersed with lusty choruses of ‘Ave Maria'.
At 3.15pm, a few people started moving out of the building, but this turned into a stampede as word spread that people outside were witnessing “the sun dancing”.
People were shouting to friends that they saw “something small and round” in the sky. A security guard said this “hysteria” could have caused deaths.
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I listen to Joe Coleman on Live Line, RTE radio 2.11.2009. The man was so agressive and angry in his speech. It made me wonder what spirit he was in contact with.
Posted by Declan Burke | 04.11.09, 12:23 GMT
Can U please ask Joe for next weeks lotto numbers, and will Man United will win the champions league in 2010?
Posted by dave | 03.11.09, 14:29 GMT
Rubbish, just rubbish
Posted by AC | 03.11.09, 12:50 GMT
One night I witnessed the moon dancing about in a strange kind of fashion. I pulled up and got out and suddenly there were figures gathering around me. One of them breathalysed me and I was gently led to this blue and white wagon which took me to a place where the double-glazed windows looked sort of bar-shaped. Later that night I was taken to a place I think they called the Holy Well. I'm still there.
Posted by Daniel | 03.11.09, 00:57 GMT
This is not serious right? People need to get some more common sense!
Posted by Common sense | 02.11.09, 21:42 GMT
So this Coleman can see the future?
How well does he do in forecasting the results of tomorrow's horseraces?
Seems to me that would be a real test.
Posted by Ned | 02.11.09, 20:18 GMT
As an Irish person, I find this to be very embarrassing. Of course these crackpots only represent a very small minority of our population but the fact that they're getting so much media coverage angers me. I mean I'm far from religious but I have a tolerance for many religious people who are not all over the top superstitious and bigots. I find it amusing that many Catholics are quick enough to tarnish pagans for believing in stupid things and yet some of them are going to Knock and claiming to see apparitions of a woman and that the sun is "dancing"... hypocrisy? no?
Posted by Daniel | 02.11.09, 20:16 GMT
Adrian Connor
Why is it "a national embarressment"?
Posted by John McMahon | 02.11.09, 20:03 GMT
This is shocking behaviour for a country like ours. It makes those followers sound like they've been brainwashed by some cult... very very sad. and even more embarrassing..
Posted by mg reilly | 02.11.09, 19:19 GMT
why does the virgin mary only appear to roman catholics and does not appear to those who are christians. she never has appeared to me and i am born again.
Posted by stephen skimin | 02.11.09, 18:24 GMT
This is a national embarressment. I'm sure if I stared at the sun for long enough I'd see Angels, demons, Aliens and probably Karl Marx, due in no small part to the fact that my retina would be frying. This is nothing but organised mass hysteria.
Posted by Adrian Connor | 02.11.09, 16:39 GMT
Fred -
"Remember that at Fatima there was pooring rain and the Sun came out and people saw something "They were NOT expecting."
Clothing and the ground became dry."
Imagine that, eh? It stopped raining, the sun came out and clothing and the ground became dry....
Posted by McD | 02.11.09, 16:20 GMT
You know it's a recession when people become this desperate for something to believe in. Despite the infinite depth and beauty of the universe it still seems that for some people infinity is not enough. It has to appear on stage Bono style, fix your shares and tell your that your so much better than such and such. Real friends are better than imaginary ones.
Posted by Danny Muray | 02.11.09, 15:09 GMT
It seems that ever since Fatima, people are looking for a "Dancing Sun" of course at Fatima, there was much more than that.
Why would God repeat himself. Why do people expect a dancing sun? Remember that at Fatima there was pooring rain and the Sun came out and people saw something "They were NOT expecting."
Clothing and the ground became dry.
I worry that the minor and explainable effects that one can see by looking at the sun too long could be associated with Fatima. Thus minimalizing what happened there.
It is cliche to look for a dancing sun. With God, expect the unexpected.
Posted by Fred | 02.11.09, 14:45 GMT
I think there are lot of people claiming to see our lady. It is very confusing and leading people away from their true belief. We really don't have to go to knock to be in touch with lady, we just kneel and pray.
I beginning to think it is a money racket. Please tell people to start going to mass and saying the family rosary and living life how Jesus taugh us.
Jesus when he was on this earth was helping people and doing good works so these people that spent a fortune going to knock and other places should stay at home and do the same.
Geraldine.
Posted by Geraldine Prior | 02.11.09, 14:43 GMT