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Thousands could go in cull of civil service jobs
Staff face axe in £200m cuts plan
Tuesday, 24 February 2009
Thousands of Northern Ireland civil service jobs are under threat as the Government threatens to impose stringent new spending cuts on the Stormont Executive.
There are fears efficiency savings of up to £200m could be demanded by Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Chancellor Alistair Darling in their next Budget, due in seven weeks’ time.
First Minister Peter Robinson and Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness are due to meet Mr Brown in Downing Street tomorrow in an attempt to prevent the full force of the latest financial axe.
They will probably be joined by Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond and his Welsh counterpart Rhodri Morgan in an appeal to the Government to cushion the impact of further cuts on the regional administrations.
The DUP First Minister and his Sinn Fein deputy have pledged to adopt a ‘common front’ against any threat to reduce the subvention which the London government pumps into Northern Ireland under the Barnett formula.
The possibility of a ‘Barnett bump’ was raised at the latest meeting of the British Irish Council in Cardiff last Friday, when seven Executive Ministers from Stormont were present.
Northern Ireland's 11 departments are already attempting to find year-on-year savings of 3%.
First Minister Robinson admitted the sort of figures which were being talked about would mean job losses “of very significant proportions”.
And a spokesman for the Department of Finance and Personnel, headed by Mr Robinson' deputy leader Nigel Dodds, said last night it could not yet quantify the extent of the new efficiency savings being required but they “could be” in the region of between £140m and £200m.
Mr McGuinness said he hoped that Mr Brown would “keep his word” — a reference to the pre-Christmas all-party meeting in Downing Street which led to the restoration of power-sharing in May 2007.
The Deputy First Minister also said yesterday he and Mr Robinson hope to raise the plight of the thousands of savers with the Presbyterian Mutual Society “on the margins” of the meeting tomorrow afternoon, following Northern Ireland Question Time in the House of Commons.
Mr Robinson said: “The sort of figures that are being talked about ... would require Northern Ireland to make efficiencies of £200m or more.
“As the Deputy First Minister knows, that means job losses of very significant proportions if it were to be applied to Northern Ireland. So we will be asking the prime minister to stand over his word to us.”
The DUP leader said when Mr Brown was Chancellor of the exchequer he “came out on to the street in Downing Street to inform the waiting press that he had, in fact, agreed a peace package for Northern Ireland that would help the devolved government for the next three years so that they would have certainty about the amount of money that was at their disposal.”
Mr McGuinness said following the Cardiff talks: “If that were to be the case, or if that were to be threatened, I would be very concerned about it but, like Peter, I very much remember the meetings that we attended prior to the restoration of the institutions where the British government made it clear what our budget was going to be, over a period of some 10 years.”
Essentially, Mr Brown had “to keep his word” and on the economy as well as other matters he and Mr Robinson were “always united”.
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70 Comments
AND? Are the civil servants jobs any more important than the thousands of other workers who have lost their jobs? I don't think so.
Posted by Stuart | 25.02.09, 22:57 GMT
Jenny,
Most big private companies have graduate schemes too. This is not something that is unique to the NICS.
Given that there are only 20 - 50 graduate posts a year in the NICS which employs tens of thousands of people, this could hardly be considered a major issue.
Posted by Pete | 25.02.09, 21:52 GMT
I know that there are Civil servants who work hard for little return and enjoy little job security, and I fear for many of them indeed. However, in my own profession (construction) I am well aware that a very high proportion of buy to let speculators and multiple-property owners are civil servants. These folks have have the best of both worlds in this country for years - a safe (highly) pensioned job and a very,very lucrative income from property on top of that. That is the problem with all of Ireland - there are some who have it all and some who have nothing. So I agree with an earlier comment, that redundancies should not include the young, single-income civil servants who both deserve and need a job in order to live.
Posted by Kevin | 25.02.09, 15:21 GMT
I have worked in both private and public sector and have to say the biggest drain on resources/finances is the excessive amount of supervisors/managers who all report into eachother. I was frustrated by the lack of autonomy and poor communication from my managers. They were getting paid a small fortune. And while the NICS continues to use a Graduate programme to recruit staff, there will ALWAYS be too many underqualified, inexperienced managers who reduce morale in ther workforce. Perhaps it's time to look at reducing head count that way?
PS - I'd much rather work for myself now than any other sector other than, possibly, voluntary.
Posted by Jenny | 25.02.09, 15:18 GMT
Many interesting comments. It has long been recognised in study after study that Northern Ireland's economy is too dependent on the Public Sector. If those of you in the Civil Service like it or not there are simply far to many of you.
If so many staff are required to deliver services then please explain why other areas of the UK can function with 20% less? I would also assume we have exemplar services with all those staff working hard, but offcoruse we do not.
The planning service is a case in point, how is it that we can have more planners per head than any other region but for the last couple of years had the longest backlog? NI was not the only region to experience a boom. The answer off course is productivity and organisational structure.
For those who will likely lose ther jobs if you are good then you have nothing to worry about! You will find another job. For the rest unfortunately for you the tax payer does not owe you a living. Remember that for we certainly have!
Posted by M Spence | 25.02.09, 13:12 GMT
It's amazing the amount of people coming on here and complaining about how lazy Civil Servants are. I come into my job from 8 to 5 everyday, and I don't stop. We have targets to meet, and there are consequencesfor not meeting those targets, so everyone is motivated to work to the best of their ability.
I'd love to know if anyone complaining about Civil Servants on here has actually worked for the Civil Service, or are they just running on the stereotype? Obviously there are one or two people who don't pull their weight, as with in any job. But there are people like me who work well....and to be honest, I have hardly encountered one of my colleagues who doesn't work away.
P.S. I work for Jobs and Benefits. You should try working here and seeing the amount of money people get a week for having an allergy to dust!
Posted by Andrew | 25.02.09, 13:03 GMT
I think it is a disgrace for anyone to say that any job loss is 'good news'. Civil Servants obviously have a terrible reputation but I have worked in the civil service for over 9 years and can say that the majority of the negative comments are a load of old rubbish. Yes there are skivers in the civil service but no more so than in the private sector. We earn our money just like everyone else and surprise surprise we also have to pay tax too!
As for this idea that we are constantly off on the sick. I can tell you that the majority of civil servants i know have to come into work when they are sick because they are worried about losing promotion opportunities etc. There are plenty of inequalities and unfairness in the world so try and do something about that instead of slagging off good honest workers. oh and b4 im accussed of skiving I am writing this on my own lunch time that I am legally required to take if I work over 6 hours. stop all the bitterness and go and read Desidera. :)
Posted by weeshelly | 25.02.09, 12:48 GMT
I feel genuine sympathy for anyone who loses their job etc........but there are simply too many "civil servants" in this place. If jobs are to go, I think the civil servants who are or have been active as investors and benefactors in the buy-to-let market should be the ones to make way. Who could argue with that? Nowhere else in the world has such an absurd dependency on the public sector, and it is neither sustainable or practical. Even in relative boom times the cost of employing, protecting and pensioning generations of civil servants in NI was never something that Britain, the 5th biggest economy in the world, could afford. No point in blaming the British Prime Minister, he has other priorities.
Posted by Ben | 25.02.09, 12:24 GMT
Public Sector sickness levels are distorted by those who are on long term sick and extended maternity leave which given the high proportion of female staff can be significant.
It is just an easy stick to beat the public sector employees with and an easy route for managers to pretent they are effective.
Much of the strees in the Public Sector is self inflected by bad managers and flexi-time practices which can reward the dishonest-- but then nobody admits they are dishonest and management avoid confrontation because the disciplary process is protracted and stressful for both management and staff for anything but the most serious offences.
Posted by Sammyboy | 24.02.09, 20:26 GMT
My husband is a senior civil servant. He doesn't have a final salary pension scheme. He isn't home before 7pm most nights and when he comes in and has dinner he then works most nights until at least 10pm. He regularly has "out of hours" meetings to go to. O and by the way - he doesn't get paid for any of this overtime. He has never had a day sick. I assume that most of you previous posters have never worked in the civil service and are jumping on the bandwagon and making sweeping generalistions about it. I'm sure like any employer (private or public) that there are people underperforming but there are also many people who work very hard. What is wrong with all you gloaters hoping that people lose their jobs - many of them are family people with bills to pay just like the rest of you.
Posted by RH | 24.02.09, 19:37 GMT
long live the NI civil service!!
I wish i worked there, however havent managed it yet.
I reckon there are a few people posting here who are a tad envious of the civil servants in NI. Unfortunately it is coming out as nasty drivel.
Good luck to them all!!
p.s. I believe the NI civil service has approx 1-2 thousand people leaving each year (retirements, moving jobs, end of temp contracts etc). Surely they would just hang fire on recruitment for a year or two and nobody would lose there job??
God... I should maybe become a MLA with that forward thinking!!
Posted by HB | 24.02.09, 19:28 GMT
I cant wait to hear the same people on here who are almost cracking open the bubbly at this news whenever they have to wait an extra 6 months for their planning applications or, judging by the times some of these posts were made, have to wait an extra few weeks for their benefit payments.
Posted by Paul | 24.02.09, 19:10 GMT
Lets just say you are unfortunate to be made redundant. Who are you going to get to sort your Jobseekers claim out? Or your unlucky enough to become sick or you reach retirement age? Or someone in your family a parent a child a brother or sister Yip thats right its the very same civil servants you want to get rid off.
Sorry can't help you all are staff have been made redundant come back in 6 months time! You want help to pay your mortgage? Buy some food? Pay your electric bill? Buy some oil?
I'M SORRY SIR/MADAM WHY DONT YOU GO AND GET A REAL JOB?
Doesn't sound quite so nice now does it? If the truth were to be known these civil servants are owed 30 years back pay not just 6 because for 30 years they have been employed on the cheap. As for their sick records I think you will find the largest % of sick is caused by female workers who are pregnant who are protected by law no matter where you are employed! (Possibly a side effect of having a largely female workforce)
Posted by Pablo | 24.02.09, 18:59 GMT
As usual some nasty unsympathetic comments being left by hypocrites and fools.
Lots of local people could loose their jobs and N.I. is going to loose out on millions. How can anyone living here argue this is a good thing?!
Posted by Farrah | 24.02.09, 18:29 GMT
That will be the best £200 million never spent here
Posted by Complainant1 | 24.02.09, 17:52 GMT
could not afford to get a mortgage with the civil service pay, and why do the people who are giving off about the civil service, come and work for it, if they find it so easy.
I admit that there is a lot of dead wood in the public sector, and much to the delight of people who actually work, they could be got rid of, and then give us a decent wage.... A happy but underpaid and frustrated by the numpties who cannot manage staff.... civil servant.
Posted by kitty | 24.02.09, 17:01 GMT
Did you know that the estimated shortfall in public sector pension is well over £1 trillion and increasing everyday. The average private sector pension is less than £40,000. Equitable? - Not nearly.
In Northern Ireland 60% work in the public sector, which means they are supported by 40% of the workforce. In the rest of the UK this is reversed. This is not fair in any way.
As this recession/depression plays out, and as tax revenues decrease, some hard decisions are going to have to be made in order to balance the books. Far better make these now and then rebuild our economy in a leaner fashion.
Posted by David | 24.02.09, 17:01 GMT
Well said Graham!
Posted by Eddie | 24.02.09, 16:49 GMT
GDW, well said.
Posted by RyanJ | 24.02.09, 16:30 GMT
GDW, I bet it took you all day to write that comment if you are a civil servant. By the way civil servant means overpaid public sector employee that expects everything including final salary pensions, numerious sick days and doing as little as possible. We will never notice the difference if there were 1000s less! Perhaps you will get the welcoming experience of standing at the other side of the dole queue counter in the future and witnessing your extremely slow and buracratic service first hand!
Posted by Andy | 24.02.09, 16:23 GMT
70 Comments