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UDA chief tells Orange Order to walk away from Garvaghy Road

Thursday, 18 February 2010

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UDA man’s comments unhelpful: Orange Order

Loyalist leader Jackie McDonald wants Orangemen to walk away from the Garvaghy Road in Portadown — unless they can agree a parade with local residents.

The shock remarks from the former UDA ‘brigadier’ comes as Northern Ireland’s politicians struggle to find a way forward on the issue of controversial parades.

A DUP/Sinn Fein working group has been tasked with designing “a new and improved framework” to rule on parades and will report next week.

But on the question of what should happen on the ground, UDA ‘brigadier’ McDonald has made his position clear.

“People used to walk down roads where Protestants lived.

“Now they want to walk down the same road where nationalists live.

“It might be tradition and it might be culture, but why would you?”

He said if Orangemen want to walk on the Garvaghy Road then it should be “by agreement and arrangement with the residents, without any outside interference”.

Recent similar comments by Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams brought an angry response from senior DUP figures including First Minister and party leader Peter Robinson.

McDonald also criticised republicans — accusing them of manipulating the parades issue, and he said Sinn Fein’s involvement with resident groups had “polluted” the atmosphere.

But speaking in a wide-ranging interview for the Belfast Telegraph he argued for a “commonsense” approach.

“They (Sinn Fein) manipulated that situation, and Gerard Rice did the same thing on the Ormeau Road.

“If you take Sinn Fein out of the whole argument, the argument is they (the Orange Order) shouldn’t walk down the Garvaghy Road or the (lower) Ormeau Road anyway, because there are no Protestants (living there) any more.

“That’s the commonsense argument, but Sinn Fein has actually polluted it.”

The loyalist leader also attacked “triumphalism” linked to marching. “What I’ve seen at Garvaghy Road before, or the Ormeau Road — once they got down the road, it was triumphalism straight out.

“That’s not the reason to walk down the road.

“That wasn’t the reason they walked down the road 30 years ago, or 50 years ago or 100 years ago. But they’ve turned it round.

“They’re not walking down the same road for the same reason.

“It’s to get one up on the other community, or being there because the other community says you can’t be.”

After the recent decommissioning confirming an end to wars, McDonald believes that the emphasis now should be on community building, and he plans a major conference in Sandy Row in Belfast in the near future.

But he says he is against “forced integration”, and that it is too soon to think about demolishing the so-called peace walls.

“It’s an ideal that everybody has and it would be a massive thing if it ever happened,” he said.

But he added: “There’s 40 years of hatred and bigotry and anger and revenge. It’s going to take a long time.”

That planned community conference in Sandy Row will bring under one roof leading loyalists and republicans, including Sean ‘Spike’ Murray, one of the most senior figures in the IRA’s war.

The intention had been to hold the event next week, but it is being delayed to accommodate one of the key speakers.

“It’s all about community development,” McDonald said. “And it’s to show everybody the two communities can work together.”

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86 Comments

It matters, mark's nemesis, because the question is whether the OO is a politically based sectarian organization or just a harmless religious one.

You are the only consistently claiming that certain Protestant sects are banned from the Order, hence I'm asking for the names of those sects that are, ostensibly, banned.

That surely isn't too much to ask, is it?

On Wikipedia, there is the claim that Unitarians and Mormons are banned from the Order - which is fine - but neither of those are Protestant sects. There is also a rather hard to quantify assertion that "certain" non-trinitarian Quakers are banned, but again, it seems hard to describe such people as "Protestants" when they don't even subscribe to the basic tenets of established Reformed belief i.e. the Trinity.

Hence, your point that certain "Protestant" sects are also banned from joining would look to be spurious, at best.

Posted by Euskal Herria | 23.02.10, 13:46 GMT

I'm curious Euskal, why does it matter to you WHICH Protestant denominations are banned?

Posted by mark's nemesis | 21.02.10, 20:28 GMT

"Euskal, I know it totally undermines your tainted view of the OO, but don't forget, certain denominations of the Protestant faith are also ineligible to OO membership. But then you knew that."

Which sects precisely? The Mormons? They're not Protestants. So, which Protestant sects are banned?

You've clearly been reading Ruth Dudley Edwards (or even more likely been consulting the Orders page on Wikipedia) so please, disabuse me of my tainted views, which Protestant sects are banned?

Posted by Euskal Herria | 19.02.10, 16:13 GMT

Euskal, I know it totally undermines your tainted view of the OO, but don't forget, certain denominations of the Protestant faith are also ineligible to OO membership. But then you knew that.

Serge "The flying of Loyalist paramilitary flags must be dispensed with. The singing of anti-Catholic tunes."

Serge, I agree. Also. when you see a parade, do you view ALL the flags on display as paramilitary?

Posted by mark's nemesis | 19.02.10, 10:59 GMT

i for one will be attending will be interesting to hear the other sides views

Posted by maxi | 19.02.10, 09:46 GMT

Well Euskal Herria up until 30 years ago Catholics were not allowed to attend weddings at non catholic churches, they had to stand outside - how do I know? because I am a 50 year old Catholic woman. So in essence what you are saying is it was alright to exclude right up until Catholics demanded change! A bit hypocritical but perhaps while I am looking up the definition of sectarianism you may want to look up the recent history of the catholic church. And bonfires were not anti-catholic years ago, they became uncelubrious when riff raff and bigots starting hi-jacking them as a night out to get hammered and violent - a characteristic which is non-sectarian as scum is scum no matter what side of the "divide" you are from. And incidently I am a very proud Catholic but equally proud of my non-bigoted upbringing. I wish yours had been as happy as mine.

Posted by Grainne | 19.02.10, 07:54 GMT

I look forward to the day when both communities respect and begin to absorb eachother's heritage, being proud of a unique New Northern Ireland culture that is being created. When that day comes there will be no resistance or opposition to culture and heritage parades. Instead they will be respected then perhaps even welcomed. In the meantime USA's comments are right. Both communities have a Christian duty to avoid offending their neighbour.

Posted by republicofnorthernireland.com | 19.02.10, 02:06 GMT

Peace - at last?

Posted by Seamus OhEarcain | 18.02.10, 23:35 GMT

First of all, it is refreshing to hear a leader within the Orange Order finally wake up and smell the coffee AND have to courage to speak what millions throughout Britain have been saying for years!

Mr. McDonald should be congratulated! However, since this "marchin issue" is based upon bigotry and ignorance, he will probably be vilified by those whose middle name is "hatred".

It's time for men and women of peace, from all corners of N.Ireland, to stand up, be heard, take control and guide N.Ireland into the 21st. century! One can only hope and pray that these individuals exist, and have the courage to do this.

Posted by Edward | 18.02.10, 21:37 GMT

Time to move on a stop all parades both orange and green, stop flying flags both union jacks and the Irish flag and try and live together as normal people.

Posted by sean from co down Ireland | 18.02.10, 21:03 GMT

only let local lodges march, is there any need for millions to attend? maybe one lodge marching would not cause the same intimidation as 100

Posted by easy peasy | 18.02.10, 20:49 GMT

as a child i was brought up without any political persuasion from my family or friends, however it seems to me that people raised in a minority feel the need to raise their children in a way that instills bitterness and hatred.. 100 years from now the same hatred will be instilled in our childrens children and so on, and so on. God love them, to have so much hatred from such a young age it seems inevitable they will grow up to be carbon copies of the mindset you see posted below.

Posted by dismayed | 18.02.10, 20:46 GMT

I seen a comment saying Mr MacDonald was a disgrace to the protestant people. I could not DISAGREE enough. I think its people like him that is helping move are country on to better times. I also think its comments like that one that is stopping are country from moving one and people like him is the ones that is a disgrace to the protestant people. What does he think would happen if they walked the road against the residents wishes? The result of that is what we are trying to move one from. I am a supporter of the orangemen/women myself but not in the way to give the protestant people a bad name by thinking yes 1/0 we got down the road!!! So yes i very much welcome Mr MacDonalds comments. very well spoken

Posted by kb | 18.02.10, 19:53 GMT

Well said Jackie.

Posted by Ted | 18.02.10, 19:04 GMT

if one set of people cant go done a road, stop anyone from using it ,this seems fair.

Posted by Actions | 18.02.10, 18:27 GMT

Jackie McDonald is not a member of the Orange Order and should keep his nose out and as far as a UDA Brigadier - He promised lots but delivered nothing unlike other Brigadiers...

Posted by Gazza | 18.02.10, 18:25 GMT

Do Orange men like to go back houses they used to live in every now and rearrange the furniture, watch some TV etc? It's a topsy turvy world where the UDA are talking sense to alleged men of God.

I'm sure there were halcyon days where RCs came out on the streets to watch the parades but this is probably because there was nothing else to do. And really its not like they had a choice in the matter.

Posted by Pete | 18.02.10, 18:12 GMT

thanks jackie. are you up for a knighhood on the queens honour list.... my god you have a short memory or are you trying to rub local people up the wrong way, as a resident of sandy row all my life and as some of my family have lost their life and many more lost many years serving time for your cause thanks very much for me finding out that spike murray coming to sandy row from a newspaper.,... what happened to comunity consulation, thats a joke its jackies way or the highway!!!!! round of applause for jackie mac

Posted by angry sandy row | 18.02.10, 18:07 GMT

Jackie Macdonald is a trader to loyalism for making this statement he does not respersent any one of inportance so he should keep his appinions to himself. Harry Loyalist Shankill rd Belfast

Posted by harry glass | 18.02.10, 17:52 GMT