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No blueprint from the governments, no sign of a deal... just what is going on at the Northern Ireland talks?
Saturday, 30 January 2010
Could the last one to leave please turn off the lights? TV cameras and lights abandonded in the snow outside Hillsborough last night
enlargeThe British and Irish governments ducked out of a confrontation with Northern Ireland's political parties last night and kept their promised proposals to save Stormont under wraps.
Premiers Gordon Brown and Brian Cowen had pledged to published their own blueprint for the way ahead but, in the end appear to have blinked first.
Last night a fifth night of negotiations at Hillsborough was ongoing — the longest period of talks since the Good Friday Agreement — with little sign of resolution.
While further progress was being signalled, particularly on the thorny issue of ensuring a Justice Minister has autonomy but can still be accountable, there was no guarantee of an overall successful outcome.
Against a backdrop of increasing pessimism there were fears republicans would finally trigger their threat to topple Stormont, with Martin McGuinness resigning as Deputy First Minister in the Assembly on Monday.
That would start the clock ticking for a further week in which time pressure for a package to save Stormont from self-destruction could still be agreed.
If on Monday week Sinn Fein refuses to re-nominate, the Government would probably call new elections — or suspend the institutions and attempt further talks.
London and Dublin back-tracked on their own deadline for making public their proposals to resolve the long-standing impasse over policing and justice powers and parading.
After announcing their intention to publish their blueprint on Monday, Mr Brown and Taoiseach Brian Cowen yesterday delayed their plans to instead throw the talks another lifeline.
A Northern Ireland Office spokesman said the governments would review the “outcome” of the talks which he confirmed were outgoing — but no new deadline was given.
“The key point is the talking is still going on,” one Belfast official said. “Does anyone think it would be wise for the governments to say ‘okay, that's it' if there is still progress being made?”
Prime Minister Brown and Mr Cowen, who both cleared their diaries to allow for a return to Hillsborough, appear to have decided against it after being briefed by Secretary of State Shaun Woodward and Irish Foreign Minister Micheal Martin.
There was a heavy security presence as speculation grew that the PMs were about to fly in again — 48 hours after departing and seeming to impose a 48-hour cut-off point.
Talks sources said Mr Woodward and Mr Martin went into a one-to-one meeting around 3pm yesterday and then spoke to the Premiers.
The Sinn Fein talks team left the venue to meet senior party officers and blamed the DUP for delaying a deal by insisting on a replacement mechanism to the Parades Commission.
Sinn Fein minister Conor Murphy said: “We do have to come to a stage where, if it isn't working properly, we have a responsibility to be honest with people and say the basis on which we went into these institutions, the basis |on which we agreed with the |DUP and the two governments that they would work, is not working.
“We're busy talking to the two governments, to the DUP. Our preference would be to get an agreement so we can move on. But if that's not available we would have to assess where we go from there.”
DUP leader Peter Robinson, however, said his party remained relaxed and up for a deal — if the conditions are right — but he was “not interested” in threats or deadlines.
“If the deal isn't right it won't be done. We are not afraid of the devolution of policing and justice. But, until I have a package that looks right, I'll not be going to my party colleagues to ask for support,” the currently stood-down First Minister added.
There were reports some of the participants were exhausted after meetings going on until around 5am for two nights since the negotiations began around tea-time last Monday.
And there were some suggestions the talks could be suspended for the weekend — the DUP insisting it would not be negotiating on Sunday — and resume on Monday.
Alternatively, the parties may opt to keep at it until a deal is struck, or bust.
The talks are now the longest on-going period of negotiations and even those that led to the 1998 Agreement did not involve as many all-night sessions.
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anyone who thinks we are going to get a lasting deal is living in another world we will get a cooked up deal to save this executive from collapsing we live in a divided community ruled by two divided parties that never agree while jobs are being lost the economy in trouble health and education a shambles and all this lot care about is themselves
Posted by norman.d | 31.01.10, 18:16 GMT
And they marched them up till the top of the hill and marched them down again and again.. Years have past and they are still doing it!! Sectarian nutters who play on Ulster peoples fears is what they are!! I mean Peter and company! I am a Unionist voter!! Take the big salaries away and they will agree to anything!! Bring on direct rule!!
Posted by Mike Irvine | 31.01.10, 17:29 GMT
this is a total nonsense,,,lets examine the facts ,,we have mlas who are on £200k a year including expenses in charge of a country with a population of 1,7 million people ,,the most represented country (per head of population in the world ) why not give each mla a vote (104 votes ),,stormont is the reason why less than half the people do not vote ,,,its a super council not a government ,,mlas from various parties say they will not walk away,,,why would they they are well paid ,,,forget about other countrys ,,,104 votes majority wins after all its not about the dup and sinn fein i assume there are other parties in stormont ,,,,,when the most exciting thing to come out of stormont since it started is ,,iris robinson enough said
Posted by hg | 31.01.10, 15:55 GMT
Should NI Unionists should feel secure about sharing political power? Surely N.Is constitutional status cannot be changed easily regardless of who is First Minister.
Section 1 of the Northern Ireland Assembly Act 1973 Act reiterated a commitment on NI's status that had first appeared in a slightly different form in the UK's Ireland Act 1949:
"It is hereby declared that Northern Ireland remains part of Her Majesty's dominions and of the United Kingdom, and it is hereby affirmed that in no event will Northern Ireland or any part of it cease to be part of Her Majesty's dominions and of the United Kingdom without the consent of the majority of the people of Northern Ireland voting in a poll held for the purposes of this section in accordance with Schedule 1 to this Act which provided that no referendum was to be held before 9 March 1983. If the result of that or any future referendum meant that NI remained part of the UK, the next referendum could not be held for another10 years.
Posted by Alwyn | 30.01.10, 22:38 GMT
"Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right". ~H.L. Mencken, 1956
"Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumber". ~Plato
"Politicians are the same all over. They promise to build a bridge even where they is no river". ~Nikita Khrushchev
Nothing changes in this sick & sorry province.
Mental illness cannot be successfully treated by the same minds that created it.
Mark Twain said:-
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness.”
We need to send all the the bigots in Norn Iron on an indefinite tour of the world and only allow them back when they are cured.
Posted by Wild Rover | 30.01.10, 18:19 GMT
So when will the Groundhog Day Agreement be signed?
Posted by Rich | 30.01.10, 15:48 GMT
get this sharade over no chance of an agreement dup must get the orange down the gervacey road sf cant let them. game over pull the plug and see what happens
Posted by sick to the teeth | 30.01.10, 15:39 GMT
Yes we can for time waits for no one and changes all.
Posted by phl | 30.01.10, 15:11 GMT
What a bunch!! They have marched for years talking about marches! They are now talking throughout the night about marches! Is Stormont a place for people with serious mental health issues? We elected politicians not a marching band of incompetent nutters!
Posted by Mike Irvine | 30.01.10, 14:16 GMT
Northern Ireland voters have only themselves to blame.
They have insisted in electing parties at the extreme ends of the political spectrum, whereas government led by the SDLP, Ulster Unionists and Alliance would have reached agreement long ago.
It is worthy of note that despite all their efforts Sinn Fein only took 6.5% of the popular vote in the last elections to the Doyle on which showing they would still remain a minor party within a united Ireland.
The Unionists would of course be just a memory.
Posted by Richie | 30.01.10, 13:23 GMT
It was always going to be like this. Northern Ireland is about as British as my left foot but the Unionists will fight tooth and nail against what is unstoppable before accepting it, as they always have.
If Ireland had to have been given Home Rule in 1885, 1893 or 1912 then this might have been avoided, yet the Unionists combined with their Conservative allies resolutely opposed it, claiming a Dublin parliament would deprive them of their religious rights, ironically something they then proceeded to do to Catholics once they got their own.
Ireland would probably still be part of the U.K. today had they accepted the will of the people all those years ago - as it is now, this is nothing more than the slow death of the Northern state and a march towards a UI.
It may take 20, 50, over even 100 years but it's coming. 20 years ago Unionists wouldn't even accept the Irish government playing a role in Northern affairs, now they're part of the overseers along with the British.
Posted by John Q. Public | 30.01.10, 12:26 GMT
boring!
Posted by Malachy McAnespie | 30.01.10, 10:51 GMT
I'm just wondering if the lads are on overtime (double time perhaps ?) during these "talks"
I also believe that the food at Stormont is very nice.
As for the Prime Ministers leaving - for a mouthful of Valium perhaps ?....
Talk about the tail wagging the dog ! Nothing to admire or respect here. You HONESTLY couldn't make it up. God help us all.
Posted by Patrick 2 | 30.01.10, 05:24 GMT