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Politicians protest at Orange Order criticism

Wednesday, 3 December 2008

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Unionist politicians at the Northern Ireland Assembly who are involved in the Orange Order hit out yesterday at a nationalist minister who branded the organisation sectarian.

The head of the Orange Order, Grand Master Robert Saulters, said more than a third of Assembly members were also members of one of the various Loyal Orders.

Today a string of top unionist politicians handed a letter of protest in to Social Development Minister Margaret Ritchie's office. She did not meet the delegation, but they called on the minister to withdraw her remarks.

Orange Order members included leading Democratic Unionist Party representatives Finance Minister Nigel Dodds, junior minister Jeffrey Donaldson and David Simpson, plus senior Ulster Unionists including Employment and Learning Minister Sir Reg Empey, Danny Kennedy and David McNarry.

Mr Saulters said: "There are 37 members of the loyal orders in the Assembly, just over one third of the entire number.

"That is a very significant percentage and we wanted to point out to Ms Ritchie that these Orangemen are making a positive contribution to the political process in Northern Ireland and she should take note of that fact.

"Our members are very busy and we were delighted that so many could take time out of their diaries to sign the letter in the Great Hall at Stormont today.

"Others, who could not attend, contacted me to voice their support."

The letter handed in to Ms Ritchie's office said: "We are writing as members of the Northern Ireland Assembly, including members of the Executive, who are also members of the loyal Orange Institution."

It complained that in press reports last month Ms Ritchie was said to have attended a Gaelic Athletic Association (GAA) conference in Belfast where she addressed sectarian attacks on Orange halls and GAA venues.

The minister condemned all such attacks, but reportedly said that the GAA and Orange Order could not be described as reflections of each other, insisting that the GAA had reached outside its nationalist heartland towards other communities.

She was quoted as saying: "While the loyal orders have some progressive people around who wish to move them forward to a better place, they remain unlike the GAA, sectional and sectarian and deeply divisive in our community."

The Orange Order's protest letter read: "As members of the Loyal Orange Institution and colleagues in the Northern Ireland Assembly, we take great exception to these remarks.

"We think it was quite inappropriate of you to make such a statement just one day after an Orange Hall was blown up outside Pomeroy in Co Tyrone.

"These remarks are themselves unfair, divisive and potentially inflammatory and, as such, there would be a considerable body of opinion that you may also be in breach of your Ministerial Code of Conduct.

"As you have not denied the report publicly, we call on you to withdraw those remarks as a matter of urgency."

While the minister did not meet the Orangemen today, a spokesman from her party, the nationalist SDLP, said: "The Orange Order had written to Margaret requesting a meeting prior to today and she has agreed to that request and will meet them in the near future."

The Northern Ireland Assembly has 108 elected representatives.

The Loyal Orders include such groups as the Orange Order, the Royal Black Preceptory and the Apprentice Boys.

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25 Comments

I'm not an Orangemen and have no interest in joining the Orange Order...ever. However, It is an organisation based on upholding Protestant religious values, and as such no person other than a Prostestant could honestly do this. This doesn't make it sectarian, its just a common sense. As a Presbyterian I can't from join Opus Dei etc., without being a Catholic. The same argument could be applied to this example.

The Freemasons don't allow women to join based so solely on their sex which wouldn't compromise the core belief of the organisation. Most of the people commenting would be better off championing this cause, though i don't think they could be bothered if there is no Orange-bashing involved.

Posted by Paul | 05.12.08, 20:07 GMT

Davy? Woooooosh.

That was the sound of my point sailing straight over your head.

But I would like to tackle this statement: "The GAA promotes Irish sport wherever be found the Irish Nation and its friends"

Where can I find such promotional endeavours relating to the Irish Football Association ? Cape Town maybe? How about NY?

Posted by mickey | 05.12.08, 10:42 GMT

"GAA's constant promotion of a 32-county national identity"

The GAA promotes Irish sport wherever be found the Irish Nation and its friends, so next time you are in New York, Dusseldorf, Cape Town, Melbourne look out for the GAA. You really need to get out a bit more, maybe buy yourself a book or two, expand your little horizons instead of making a fool of yourself parading your astounding ignorance on the internet

Posted by Davy | 05.12.08, 09:57 GMT

Seamus, what the OO do is of little or no concern to me since I am not personally a member. If you want to, why don't you write out a nice letter to the OO hierarchy, stating that you are (presumably) RC and that you would like to join their merry band of whatevers. I don't for one minute suspect you are motivated enough to do so however, so quit moaning.

The GAA passes itself off as a "sporting association". Perhaps Alice could tell me what contribution to this so-called "sport" was made by some of the dead terrorists who now have grounds & trophies named after them. Or why grounds are used for supporters to gather at "Republican rallies". Perhaps she thinks the GAA's constant promotion of a 32-county national identity, language and "culture" is NOT politically motivated. Or the respect which "must" be shown to the tricolour.

Where's the out-reach to unionists? It is non-existent, thus I am excluded.

Posted by mickey | 05.12.08, 09:30 GMT

Mickey,

just one little point....whereas you could go and sign yourself up as a member of the GAA if you actually wanted to, I as a Roman Catholic would never, ever be allowed into the Orange Order for being a Roman Catholic. Any comment on that consideing how you so despise prejudice and bigorty?

Posted by Séamus | 04.12.08, 21:36 GMT

Gary,
The IRA wasn't sectarian. It declared itself at war with Britain and everybody cooperating with the British long before you were born.
Therefore quite a few of their victims were actually catholics.
I get the impression you don't know the meaning of the most important word in this whole discussion.

Posted by Jan | 04.12.08, 20:43 GMT

Mickey mouse says: "Can you imagine the Irish Football Association adopting a policy where the primary aim is to ensure the on-going resistence to Republicans"

By this, you seem to be under the illusion that the "primary aim" of the GAA is the resistance to Unionism/Loyalism/Britishness? Do you know anything? The GAA's "primary aim" is to promote sport, get it? Clue: Gaelic *Athletic* Association ?? Hello? Dime Bar ?? Oh nevermind. It is also a Irish cultural organisation, but I do not have the time nor the inclination to explain the concept of "culture" to you. Just one question: have you ever "read" the constitution of the GAA? Thought not, yet you feel qualified to pass judgement...

Posted by Alice | 04.12.08, 15:39 GMT

For all their faults and flaws, the GAA really *wants* people of the Protestant, Unionist, British tradition on this island of Ireland to come and play ball with them in the spirit of respect and enjoyment. Even the old RUC had a Gaelic football team.

But it is clear that the Orange Order is never going to reach out to Catholics, as the very cornerstone of its constitution, its very "raison d'être" is to oppose and denigrate all things Roman Catholic...

So I would say that whereas the GAA has an image problem, the Orange Order has a fundamental moral problem

Posted by Tantum Ergo | 04.12.08, 14:32 GMT

The fact that NI Loyalists use the GAA as a target for abuse shows how they are devoid of any real argument and are just gratuitously sectarian.

Any organisation that bars people on the basis of having stood as a godparent for a Catholic child is Bigoted and Sectarian. The GAA has had many prominent protestants in its ranks, including Sam Maguire!

Posted by Southern Comfort | 04.12.08, 12:23 GMT

Gary, wind your neck in. Comparing the Orange Order to a football team? Why not?
Comparing the Orange Order to the GAA is no different. The GAA is primarily a sporting organisation and, the last time I checked, they don't prescribe against people on religious grounds. They represent the sport of Ireland.
I note by the way that there still hasn't been any celebration of Tyrone's victory in winning the Sam Maguire's Cup. Tell me, is the Sports Minister a member of the Orange Order?

Posted by PC | 04.12.08, 10:35 GMT

Would any Catholics seriously give any consideration to join the OO if they were permitted?

For Ritchie to bring the GAA in to all this is just laughable. Can you imagine the Irish Football Association adopting a policy where the primary aim is to ensure the on-going resistence to Republicans OR if they allowed clubs within their jurisdiction to name grounds after deceased loyalists terrorists? Would there by any out-cry from nationalists/republicans if they created the Ihab Shoukri Cup? What if they insisted all players sang GSTQ before big cup finals etc? Would Margaret Ritchie et al be able to button her lip then or would the irony be lost on them?

Posted by mickey | 04.12.08, 10:27 GMT

I can't ever remember the GAA being anything other than a Pro Irish Republican instituition. After all, they name so many of their teams after members of Irish Republican Terrorist Organisations... Oh sorry.. It's only Protestants who are sectarian and biggoted... And silly me, I forgot that it's only Nationalist and Republican Ireland that suffered in the recent spate of troubles at the hands of those dirty sectarian biggots.....

Posted by Harry Hopkins | 04.12.08, 00:21 GMT

the orange order is sectarian. What part of that do they not understand? Crocidile tears from crocidiles.

Posted by billy for the truth | 03.12.08, 22:42 GMT

Any religious organisation that says you must be of that religion is sectional or sectarian by definition. Ritchie's termonology is emmotive and silly. She would be right to say the Roman Catholic Church is sectional or sectarian in exactly the same way - equally emmotive and silly!

What she is wrong to do is to say that the GAA is not sectarian/sectional when clearly it is a nationalist organisation whereby members must support the aims of the organisation of which the primary aim is a United Ireland (clearly stated in their own rules and published proudly on the GAA's web-site). That's fine and not particularly religiously sectional or sectarian but it is sectional/sectarian in that it clearly excludes Unionists. It's a very strange sports organisation that excludes those because of their Political viewpoint. Also flies in the face of the Equality Legislation that governs the country and for which sports must comply to receive public funds.

Posted by CCR | 03.12.08, 22:30 GMT

I have included a copy of the Royal Black "Orange Order Oath". Decide for yourself whether you think it is sectarian or not.

Do you promise, before this Lodge, to give no countenance, by your presence or otherwise, to the unscriptural, superstitious, and idolatrous worship of the Church of Rome? And do you also promise never to marry a Roman Catholic, never to stand sponsor for a child when receiving baptism from a priest of Rome, nor allow a Roman Catholic to stand sponsor for your child at baptism? And do you further promise to resist, by all lawful means, the ascendancy, extension and encroachments of that Church; at the same time being careful always to abstain from all unkind words and actions towards its members, yea, even prayerfully and diligently, as opportunity occurs, to use your best efforts to deliver them from error and false doctrine, and lead them to the truth of that Holy Word, which is able to make them wise unto salvation?

Posted by Fred | 03.12.08, 20:45 GMT

No! We are absolutely not sectatian....how dare you!

Actually, we are just bigots, that's all.

Posted by JaffaJoe | 03.12.08, 18:45 GMT

Margeret richie is right the orange order is a bigoted and sectarian organisation the only ones that dont see this are the bigots themselves.

Posted by J. Fish | 03.12.08, 18:19 GMT

The GAA is open to Protestants,is the Orange Order open to Catholics?

Posted by Michael | 03.12.08, 16:17 GMT

Since the 'loyal orders' preach rabid anti-Catholic views at their meeting places (I have heard this myself various times at 'the Field'), it would appear that Minister Ritchie may have been correct in her analysis of them. The GAA does not promote anti-Protestant views, so, again, she is also right in her claim that there is no equivalence between it (the GAA) and the orders. It appears that facts are hard for the orders to swallow, and also that, sadly, there seems to be no effort by same to curb their rabid anti-Catholicism, which is deeply offensive.

Posted by Antaine | 03.12.08, 15:12 GMT

PC are you for real? Comparing a religious order with a football club??? ALL religious organisations are sectarian by their very nature!! Whether its the Catholic Church, the Protestant Churches, the AOH, the OO, etc, etc, etc. Get a grip. What makes me cringe is Margaret Ritchie who is supposed to represent all without bias or favour not only singles out the OO for criticism, thereby fuelling the sectarian elements within her own community that burn down Orange Halls but also elevates the GAA to a higher plateau!! A so-called sporting organisation that names grounds, trophies and tournaments after sectarian killers! The irony and hypocrisy knows no bounds!! She should be sacked for her idiotic remarks. This is also at a time when the Irish governments head belatedly visits an Orange Hall in the Irish state. Talk about paying lip service to the Orange in the Irish state flag!!

Posted by Gary | 03.12.08, 15:12 GMT