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Blair: Pope is wrong about gays – and most Catholics think so too

Wednesday, 8 April 2009

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The Pope and the Vatican have an "entrenched attitude" towards homosexuality which is less tolerant than the views of ordinary Catholics, Tony Blair says in comments published today.

The former prime minister, who converted to Catholicism shortly after leaving office two years ago, said he disagreed with the Pope's stance on gay rights and controversially suggested that the Church should reform itself along similar lines to how he re-organised the Labour Party.

"Organised religions face the same dilemma as political parties when faced with changed circumstances," he said.

"You can either A: Hold on to your core vote, basically, you know, say 'Look let's not break out because if we break out we might lose what we've got, and at least we've got what we've got so let's keep it'. Or B: You say 'let's accept that the world is changing, and let us work out how we can lead that change and actually reach out'."

The comments from Mr Blair will cause controversy in the Vatican which still officially insists that gays are "intrinsically disordered" and that homosexual sex is a sin.

Last year, Pope Benedict XVI caused widespread outrage in the gay community when he compared toleration of gays to the destruction of the rainforests and said that homosexuality is "a more or less strong tendency ordered towards an intrinsic moral evil".

Mr Blair, who now runs his own religious think-tank, made the comments during an interview with The Independent columnist Johann Hari, who was writing for Attitude, Britain's biggest-selling gay magazine. Its 15th anniversary edition with Mr Blair's full interview is published today.

Asked whether he agreed with the Pope's latest remarks on homosexuality Mr Blair said he believed that ordinary Catholics did not feel the same way about homosexuality but the Church's leadership was afraid of making any major doctrinal concessions.

"There is a huge generational difference here," he said. "There's probably that same fear amongst religious leaders that if you concede ground on [homosexuality], because attitudes and thinking evolve over time, where does that end? You'd start having to rethink many, many things." He added: "If you went and asked the [ordinary Catholic] congregation, I think you'd find that their faith is not to be found in those types of entrenched attitudes."

Mr Blair's comments are controversial because since leaving office two years ago he has become a powerful unofficial ambassador for Catholicism. Although Catholicism takes a traditionally tough line against homosexual sex, Mr Blair presided over key pieces of gay equality legislation when he was in office, including the introduction of civil partnerships and lowering the age of consent for gay people to the same as for heterosexuals.

His generally liberal stance on abortion also contrasts with the Vatican, which supported the excommunication of a mother and four doctors in Brazil last month who performed a termination on a nine-year-old girl who had been raped by her stepfather.

In discussing his political approach to gay rights, Mr Blair praised the former mayor of London Ken Livingstone, who, he said, inspired him to be more determined to push through gay equality legislation.

"He changed my thinking in the sense that it taught me – or retaught me – a lesson that I think is very important in politics, which is that conventional wisdom is not necessarily wise: it can be wrong and it can be just a form of conservatism that hides behind a consensus," he said.

He also said that his long-term friend and trusted adviser, the Business Secretary Lord Mandelson, had been the victim of homophobia throughout his political career.

"His career is interesting in both senses in that he's attacked in certain quarters for being gay, and yet, at the same time, also, I don't believe that has altered in any shape or form people's opinion of him," he said.

"What those comments indicate is that the prejudice is still there, but what they also indicate is that its force is very weak, really."

_{Source: Independent}

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38 Comments

I cleanse thee wretched BT posters of thine sin.

Posted by JC | 08.04.09, 20:58 GMT

I find the whole thing a mind blowing that seemingly intellegent people literally believe the Bible word for word! Every other aspect of your lives are based upon reason, evidence and common sence but not when it comes to this particular brand of Mythology! Really people this is a book which says the world is ~6000 years old even though scientists have proven that in fact its approx 4.5 BILLION. They have done this usuing observations and experimentation but because it goes against the bible's view it has to be wrong.

Of but of course it's not all literal (Some say) so why not the bit about homosexuality? Really everyone its time we all focused on just enjoying life, getting on with one another and not spend it worring about what happens when we die.

Posted by Neill | 08.04.09, 17:43 GMT

So authorised religion has no truck with gays - hardly big news and TB is as likely to fix that as his GB is to fix the economy. The most appauling thing in the report is that a mum some doctors and an abused 9 year old have been excommunicated just when they need their faith - now that's disgusting.

Posted by sheila | 08.04.09, 17:30 GMT

1. Andy is right and makes some pretty good points. I dont see judgement fom Andy here - just his expression that he accepts God´s law and tries to live by it. And just be saying anything he is labelled a bible basher. Believers are entitled to state what they believe.

2. Blair is right to express his view. It is not one I agree with but you know, if it gets people thinking and challenges them to to reconsider their own views, a wake up call is no bad thing occasionally.

3. The Church is no democracy is the better for it. Although subject to the fallacy of mankind it is nonetheless a wonderful organisation where the policitical winds of change cannot blow easily. Where the Church could help itself is being seen to being sympathetic to public opinon and moods, without necessairly being guided by them

No one is perfect. All have sinned. Even the Derry girls

Posted by John | 08.04.09, 16:59 GMT

I don't know who Tony Balir thinks he is - he hasn't been a Catholic for 5 minutes and he's trying to tell the Pope that he's wrong about doctrine issues. Sorry Tony but you're well out of order here - Catholic doctrine is essntially unchanged since the early days of the church and isn't going to change because you don't like it! And if you really don't like it, go join the Church of England, I'm sure they'd be able to accomodate you!

Posted by JM | 08.04.09, 16:18 GMT

We should expect more positive proposals in relation to environmental perils from the leader of a major Christian Church. In early Christian history the limits on food supply were overcome by creating celibate religious communities. Homosexuality must now be actively encouraged by parents and all thinking people, as homosexuals are currently doing more to solve the problem of our growing carbon footprint and overpopulation (apart from warrior groups) in a stressed ecology than any other minority.

Posted by Malachy McAnespie | 08.04.09, 16:16 GMT

I dont care what Tony Blair thinks.
I think religion is a bunch of rubbish.
Man has created god in his own image .

Posted by William | 08.04.09, 15:56 GMT

G - the bible says if there is no god and jesus did not return from the grave then eat drink and be merry...but if you are taking bible quotes then you must accept the whole thing and thus it does not say eat drink and be merry, it explicitly states the opposite.

Posted by baryy | 08.04.09, 15:29 GMT

G said...."is it blasphemous that Elton John has taken the name of one of the apostles?".......was one of the apostles called Elton?? Probably the one with the wig and the big glasses.

Posted by Baron Stefan von Heinrich | 08.04.09, 15:16 GMT

Mr Blair's position on this issue stands diametrically opposed to Roman Catholic Church teaching. Many of the responses in regards to this article miss this point. Forgiveness of course is possible in God through Christ. The Church's ongoing and consistent teaching on this issue is clear. That position does not discriminate against any one as all Roman Catholics are bound to it via their baptism. Those who are not Catholic are free to believe and practice what they like or what their faith community espouses. Mr Shaw's comments are an excellent response please read them.

Posted by Linda Ball | 08.04.09, 14:17 GMT

So why did he become a Catholic if he doesn't believe it? Strange.

Posted by neil | 08.04.09, 14:16 GMT

Am I reading this Blair speak correctly ?
Is he equating the popular opinion that brought about his New Labour with the ability of ordinary Catholics to change Canon law and doctrinal issues ? Is that not the elected job of the Pope and the Vatican Council ? Issues of faith and morals are much more important than any decisions Blair ever took in government , where he demonstrated so ably his ability to bend in the wind , and transform what was a socialist party in to his New Labour ( lighter shade of blue party ) in order to hold on to power !
Blair has exerted enough influence on the world ,why doesn't he just go and play a few rounds of golf ?

Posted by Jack | 08.04.09, 14:03 GMT

Andy, by 'futile actions on Earth' I assume you mean their lives. What gives you the right to judge what Elton John or anyone else does in their private life if it does not harm others?

You may or may not be 'remotely intolerant' but you're certainly delusional. Professing your belief in a ludicrous old fairytale doesn't excuse your words or actions.

Posted by Martin Dee | 08.04.09, 13:42 GMT

So Elton pops his clogs bless him and arrives at the Pearly Gates to be met my God. He asks forgiveness for stealing a Teddy from a shop at the age of 5, for coveting the next door neighbour's 911 and also asks for forgiveness for generally being an odious wee prat most of his adult life.

"Can I come in now God?"
"Um, Elton, darling, aren't you forgetting one major sin?"
"No, what could it be?"
"You ain't getting anywhere near Heaven until you open your eyes and admit your other major sin"
"Ye wha? Well I haven't got a clue what it is so am I not getting in then?"
"Correct"
"Well Adios you big tart".

Is this about the crux of it?

Posted by mickey | 08.04.09, 13:32 GMT

A tad sectarian there, P

Posted by Gary | 08.04.09, 13:31 GMT

im not remotly intollerant, i dont think non christians have any reason to follow or even acknoledge gods law that i choose to try to live by. But that doesnt disguise the fact that wether elton John knows he is in the wrong or not, god wont forgive him without the request from elton himself.I dont see how this is deemed intollerant, or how people think my cage has been rattled. Nothing gets the bible basher bashers more worked up than the prospect that their futile actions on earth may actually have consequences. The thought that they maybe they should no longer serve their own wants and desires in place of something better. But no, dont think about it, just spout the usual rubbish and be as judgimental as can be without even noticing the complete hypocricy of your own position.

Posted by andy | 08.04.09, 13:21 GMT

ascot7 what a lot of tripe!

it also says in the good book, to drink and be merry. so on that basis I'm finishing work early and going down to the pub, Instead of worrying about Elton Johns fate.
is it blasphemous that Elton John has taken the name of one of the apostles?

Posted by G | 08.04.09, 13:20 GMT

Couldn't agree with Tony Blair more. I have a lot of respect for this man as he is very respectful towards minority groups and he helped to bring about some of the most complex gay rights ever. As a Catholic in Ireland, I know that many of my Catholic friends have nothing against gays, and that people seem to stereotype us with being homophobic, when in actual reality Catholics are very gay accepting and tolerant. Just because the Pope says one thing, doesn't mean we can't have our own opinion. I think the CC will suffer from this issue, not because of gay people, because I'm sure not many are Catholic, but because of heterosexual people who are fed up with the Pope targeting their mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, friends, cousins, etc.

Posted by BT | 08.04.09, 13:12 GMT

My God Catholics are so hypocritical. They always claim that they're open to everyone and that they hate being vicitmised and are always the first ones to cry when something isn't right. Where is the love? For once I agree with Blair. Well said.

Posted by P | 08.04.09, 13:09 GMT

What hillarity, you should listen to yourselves, classic conservaprat comments, anything challenging the parochial world view and line of sight must instantly be smashed.

Blair makes a good point, how many of you eat Shellfish? The Old Testament is full of such rubbish along with many fine lines about how to treat your daughters.

As for comments such as 'if being gay was ok it would be in the bible' then where pray tell are the computers, satelites, mobile phones, high speed trains, internet, democracy? all thngs not mentioned in the Bible, they must be against God's will or maybe the authors did not count on human progres? maybe people with such a world view should join the Amish, practicing what you preach.

It is very depressing to read such comments. Face it conservaprats you are wrong and the reason you are wrong is because the World does not bend to your will, or your God's for that matter no matter how hard you hammer on about your mythology.

Posted by M S | 08.04.09, 13:05 GMT