the comment made by rose was very much to the prevailing topical talk about 2012 and the marking of the titanic disaster,and her comparison with what will happen in belfast,and also southampton,and of course round the world,i have not been included in any of these events despite lots of people knowing about our shannon ulster titanic society.i predict that a lot of money will be spent,and if the turn out for belfast is good ,then good luck.but will not be on a par with southampton.

Posted by patrick.j.toms | 07.04.09, 13:04 GMT

I have seen the comments of the people who know about the projection on their views from the mainstream people of n.ireland,in regard to titainic and their points of view are very lucid and sensible they are not deluded by people who have given a false impression of the world wide intrest in titanic it is not the ship but the humanity.

Posted by patrick.j.toms | 29.03.09, 22:47 GMT

I have looked at the comments on Titanic,and as the founder of the first titanic society in N.Ireland,was the first to recognise that N.Ireland needed a Titanic society,it is called the shannon ulster titanic society,and it took years before it was founded by me,unfortunately people who elected to join it knew better than me and decided to re-name the society,so effectively being barred themselves from membership,unfortunately the members were not informed,so i had to re-form the original society,and the same name prevails despite all attempts to eradicate it,it is the only all ireland titanic society,as it incorporates,the name Shannon,which is direct contact to the republic through my grandfather who the society is named after and by co-incidence came from cobh where the titanic sailed from,and ulster where the society was formed ,my grandfather was drowned on the Ship and primarily is the reason why I formed the society,to remember the victims and not to brag about the Titanic.

Posted by patrick.j.toms | 08.02.09, 12:50 GMT

I agree with Shipwright .... build a replica Titanic. I am involved in promoting N Ireland's waterways at overseas promotional shows in GB and Europe and have met many potential visitors to NI face to face. I believe visitors will want to see a real ship more so than an interpretative centre. By all means go for the centre too but bear in mind many other maritime tourist attractions have a real ship... Cutty Sark, HMS Victory, Queen Mary and HMS Warrior.
I have visited some of these and would not have been that interested if there wasn't a ship to visit. The visit to HMS Warrior which included a guided tour and dinner was excellent. It would not have been as good an experience if it was just a building.
It just takes one of the other ports Titanic was associated with to build a replica Titanic and moor it in Southampton, Liverpool, Cobh or New York. This will impact on visitor numbers to a Belfast Titanic
Interpretative centre and it may steal the show altogether.

Posted by Peter | 11.12.08, 15:23 GMT

Rose,

How many visitors are we going to get when Southampton has got plans to open a similarly themed attraction at around the same time. There's only so many customers out there and Southampton would devastate the largest potential segment (GB with an interest in maritime history). With Southampton being beside Portsmouth's Historic Shipyard (with the Mary Rose, HMS Invincible) I know where I would go to celebrate successful maritime history!

Posted by Nate | 11.12.08, 13:34 GMT

Shipwright - your comment
"But what are we going to get? Wait for it. A building that looks like a ship. Well, a bit like a ship." ...is wrong!
The ship you are referring to was "Titanic Dock" the failed bid.
The winning Titanic Signature Project is an architecturally inspiring building and a project which should receive the backing of every Belfast citizen.
TSP does not aim to celebrate the disaster that befell Titanic on her maiden voyage - the project will celebrate the Yard; Harland & Wolff, its workers and the design and incredible craftsmanship of Titanic and the countless vessels built here in the years before Titanic was conceived.
We are competing in difficult economic times for tourism so lets be positive - the Titanic story is one we should be proud of - many places, Cork, Liverpool, Halifax can lay claim to a Titanic story but Belfast built her and isn't that worth celebrating?

Posted by Rose | 11.12.08, 12:33 GMT

It is unfortunately years too late to be thinking about the Titanic project. Belfast and N.I have missed out. The rest of the world are putting on exhibitions covering the Titanic and have been doing it better for years. I was down at the Thompson dock on Tuesday at 2.30pm hoping to show my American visitors around the pump house only to find that it only opens daily between 11.30 and 2pm with the last tour leaving at 2pm. How do you expect to make money being open these hours. There were 3 bus loads of tourists who all passed by as well. My friends were stunned at our missed opportunities. We have missed making a fortune from tourism in N.I. We haved some great products in N.I but this is the only product which is world renowned. This narrow minded, work shy little country doesn't deserve any better.

Posted by john craig | 08.12.08, 22:29 GMT

As recommended by Jim below, I 'Googled' RMS Titanic-316,ooo hits, not bad. I then googled HMS Victory-394,000 hits. So how is the Titanic the best known ship in the world? I will give you that it is the best known maritime disaster in the world (not something I am too proud to boast of).

An interesting sidebar is the visitor numbers to Portsmouth Historic Dockyard. With its sperior content (HMS Victory, Mary Rose, etc.) and location, the current visitor numbers to it (around 500,000) surely weakens the forecasted numbers to the Titanic Signature Project. Remember, this Signature Project is planned to open in the same year as the London Olympics, which is truely a 'one-off' event.

Posted by GMC | 08.12.08, 09:59 GMT

Surely are not turning this into a political discussion, please let it not be the case because some sad and pathetic people see H&W as some sort of Protestant / anti-Catholic institution. We cannot change the history of Belfast, sectarianism existed in all echelons of Irish society at the turn of the century, and just as there was discrimination in the North against Catholics, the Protestant population in the 26 counties did not decrease from over 10% in 1922 to just over 2% in 2006 without reason.

However, our future is a shared future, and the Titanic is a great part of our maritime history, revered as the greatest ship ever built in terms of size and grandeur, and for anyone to compare the Titanic to the Zeebrugge ferry is just ridiculous, get a life.

The Titanic is iconic worldwide, and in a positive way, only here do I ever come across a negative attitude, and I really hope it has nothing to do with what I have highlighted above, for the sake of our future.

Posted by Steven | 07.12.08, 18:09 GMT

To point out to GMC, try typing RMS Titanic for Google. It is the best known ship throughout the world. Titanic Societies are spread throughout the world with the biggest two being in the USA.

As for too little lifeboats, an H&W Director, Alexander Carlisle recommended more lifeboats but as the regulations said 16, then 16 were installed, plus they did manage to get 4 more!

The seamanship was a disaster, not the ship.

It will be a tourist attraction.

Posted by Jim | 06.12.08, 17:17 GMT

22 Comments and nearly all of them negative. The ordinary people in the street have a lot more sense than these so called experts. 400,000 visitors a year............. dream on.

Posted by Patrick | 05.12.08, 19:27 GMT

"But don't forget that she was in perfect working order when she left Belfast. "

Given that over 1,500 people lost their lives because this ship left Belfast having been built with nowhere near enough liftboats, I'd hardly call that "perfect working order".

Does the city where the "Herald of Free Enterprise" was built have any 'tourist attractions' to cash in on/celebrate THAT man-made disaster? There are some parallels with the Zebrugge ferry disaster.

In both cases it was human error and an element of greed (sailing at high speed through a iceberg area to save time/setting sail with the bow doors wide open to save time) that led to the huge loss of human life.

I can't imagine anyone wanting to 'celebrate' the Zebrugge disaster or build 'tourist attractions' to it, and doing likewise for the Titanic seems a bit sick frankly.

Posted by Stephen | 05.12.08, 15:38 GMT

To be fair, Harland & Wollf wasn't the most ecumenical employer. Titanic was primarily the achievement of one section of the Belfast community only, albeit with politically entrenched privilege and polarised relations with the other community at the time it was built. Only a few Catholics were brave or desperate enough to work there and by all accounts suffered for it - hopefully the vistor museum won't/doesn't cover that over to give Titanic an Irish history it doesn't have. I personally would feel uncomfortable paying a visit. Still, in Sydney, we have "Bridge Climb", a hands on experience of a masterpiece of engineering which has won tourism awards. Having said that, we still have our bridge. The shipyard itself would be more interesting than any replica. People want an experience of authenticity.

Posted by Niall in Sydney | 05.12.08, 07:40 GMT

A marmite topic if ever there was one!!

Personally, I think this is a great idea and shows great vision and should be commended.

Celebrating a disaster? I find that a very narrow-minded attidtude. When built in 1912, the Titanic was the pinnical of the great era of shipping, and Belfast lead the way with the two largest ship builders in the world. The true history of Belfast is our maritime past, and there is so much to to talk about.

As for there being no interest in the Titanic, are you mad, I've just done a Google search and there are Titanic museums all across the USA! There are successful Titanic tourist attractions in Georgia, Florida and Massachutetes that I found within a few minutes, so do you not think a Titanic exhibition/museum would be successful in the very city it was built?

Let's not forget, the Effiel Tower was originally a temporary arial mast, it's now iconic with Paris; I'm seeing a replica Titanic with Samson & Goliath in the background!!

Posted by Steven | 05.12.08, 00:50 GMT

Hate to point out to Jim below, but the word 'titanic' is an oft-used adjective (especially in the world of sport) and he will devastated to find will find that the majority of Google references will be in regard to it's use as an adjective. SS Titanic is associated not with pride but with disasters and I do not see many countries rushing to cash in on such subjects (can you imagine a visitor attraction based upon the events of the Challenger and Columbia space shuttles!). This is an unpopular waste of tax-payers' money at a time when a new maternity unit is required. I hope the Assembly will hang their heads in shame at this 2012 celebration of the death's of 1500 people.

Posted by GMC | 04.12.08, 17:08 GMT

For those of you unconvinced that a replica Titanic would attract huge numbers of tourists weighed down with cash to inject into our economy, ponder on this. I work in a building directly over looking Thompson's dock where the Titanic was fitted. Everyday, rain or shine bus loads of tourists are ferried back and forth to come and stare at what is essentially a big hole in the ground. A child could do the maths.
We need this iconic attraction more than anyone realises. Not some half hearted low cost compromise our councils are so fond of. The investment potential is endless - Floating conference centre, hotel, museum, shop. This is about money not about the merits of the ship itself. The rest of the world does not seem to care whether it was built properly or not and have elevated it to mythical status. Only in Northern Ireland could we stubbornly ignore such a golden opportunity.
People pay huge amounts to dive to the wreck. You think they won't pay the air fare?

Posted by PC | 04.12.08, 16:25 GMT

What a great idea....but who would pay for it? And I can't really see H&W giving up a dry dock without the added cost of rent, would it ever bring enough tourists to pay off?

Posted by Kat | 04.12.08, 16:20 GMT

The Titanic sank. Why celebrate a failure?

Posted by why | 04.12.08, 15:44 GMT

Thing is outside of belfast/ NI the fact is not many people even know it was built here and like one poster said I dont think people really care about it enough. Mind you since one survey a month or so ago where a huge percentage of people in NI didnt know who the first minister is there are probably quite a few people in NI who dont know the titanic was built here!! It was the best ship at the time, so are many, but it sank with great loss of life on its maiden voyage. To be fair Mickey thats why it was famous and those reasons only. If it hadnt have sank it would have probably just been scrapped for the war effort or put on the atlantic conveys and no one would have heard of it

Posted by soarer | 04.12.08, 15:28 GMT

I seem to recall several years ago - possibly as a Millennium Project - there was talk of building a replica, albeit smaller version, of the Titanic and siting it on the Lagan. The main attraction would be as a dining out for the evening and poss have some rooms to stay in over night if I remember correctly.

As you can guess it was thrown out as a waste of time! Personally, I think it would have lasted longer than some of the other so-called Millennium Projects that were given monies and have now all but disappeared.

Posted by johnh | 04.12.08, 14:21 GMT