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Secular state would offer freedom to all of us
Thursday, 12 November 2009
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David Quinn (November 9) thinks that Europe is becoming a cold house for Christians.
But it is clear that his complaints refer to the loss of certain peripheral privileges by religious groups, such as bans on crucifixes in state schools or on adverts for the sale of rosary beads.
What he completely overlooks are the countervailing influences that maintain religious power over more important areas of life, not least on the island of Ireland.
Nowhere does he mention that the Republic has just seriously curtailed freedom of speech and given special protection to religious beliefs by introducing a blasphemy law, a year after the UK abolished it.
Nor does Mr Quinn mention education, where the main Christian churches have had a stranglehold for more than a century, and continue to do so through the indoctrination of an overwhelming majority of children in a particular Christian faith.
Nor does he mention abortion. Opponents of free choice stress that Ireland is a Christian society, which seems to imply that Christians have a right to impose their values on non-Christians.
So there is no choice in this crucial matter, even though 14% in Northern Ireland and a quarter of a million in the Republic say they have no religion and non-Christian denominations are growing.
Contrary to David Quinn's assumption, a secular state is not a godless state. Secularists and Humanists believe in freedom of opinion, and it would be anathema for us to compel others to agree with us.
BRIAN McCLINTON
Director, Humanist Association of Northern Ireland
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Come on Rev, you can't talk of
'the uncertain, imperfect and unreliable philosophy of human reasoning.'
and then quote from the bible?........Sweet Jeebus, you just did!....Hilarious
Posted by mark | 16.11.09, 16:13 GMT
Secular Humanism has done more to destroy civil and religious liberty in today's society than the most lawless dictatorship known to man. Humanism does not bring freedom, rather it brings bondage of the worst sort, the chains of human reasoning and the fetters of human experience. Secular humanism seeks to remove the Word of God from the state and impose the uncertain, imperfect and unreliable philosophy of human reasoning. Humanism asserts that, 'moral values are properly founded on human nature and experience alone'. This is perverse in the extreme; to have moral values founded on a fallen, sinful and corrupt human nature, is to have no moral values at all.The only way for the state to experience freedom is to build upon the sure foundation of the Word of God. 'For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ' (1Cor3:11) Biblical Christianity liberates the state, 'Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free,' (Gal5:1)
Posted by Rev Mervyn Cotton | 13.11.09, 22:12 GMT
Brian,
Keep up the good work.
Education is the key to bringing down the stranglehold that religion has on our society and other societies around the world. The fact that 4 and 5 year old kids are indoctrinated into religions while at school is very disturbing, I was one of them. Thankfully, I was born with enough common sense to realise from an early age that what I was being told by teachers and by clergymen was the biggest load of nonsense that I had ever heard. Who in their right mind would believe half of the stuff in the bible? Unfortunately, the answer is millions. Why? Simple, they are brainwashed from an early age.
All children in NI should be allowed to attend school without being 'infected' by religion. It is wrong to force religion into the heads of young children by using fear tactics, hell, punishment, etc. How dare someone threaten a child with going to hell, they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
Get religion out of schools!
Posted by WH | 13.11.09, 14:46 GMT
Yes the problem is there are far too many denominations here competing with each other in the "Holier than thou" stakes!
Posted by gasman | 13.11.09, 12:25 GMT
Brian, you say;
"the loss of certain peripheral privileges by religious groups, such as bans on crucifixes in state schools or on adverts for the sale of rosary beads"
How is the freedom to have a crucifix in school a "privilege"? how is a "ban" the loss of a privilege? Surely it's a curtailing of freedom?
Brian also speaks of the "stranglehold" on education, forgetting to mention that the churches historically provided education where there was none.
Hardly a stranglehold. No one forces you to use the schools that the church provides. Had the church not provided the schools, the education system would not be what it is.
And abortion, if that that is a simple, run-of-the-mill choice, like what to have for your breakfast. Society denies people all sorts of choices, such as the choice to maim and murder at will. This is not solely a christian restriction.
Yet another poor showing from the Humanist Association.
Posted by John | 13.11.09, 11:55 GMT
This is probably the most refreshing letter I've read on the BT's letters section ever. Brian is right on all accounts. I long for the day when we live in a state such as the one Brian envisages.
Thank you
Posted by In the Name Of The Fada | 13.11.09, 10:38 GMT
Quite agree. The Christian right in NI have far too great a grip on power. Next step we need to remove the fundamentalists from Stormont as they are the single biggest thing holding back this province from blooming socialy and economically. I cannot imagine how anyone can support the churches after all the suffering they have imposed over the centuries.
Posted by Mike | 13.11.09, 10:18 GMT
Well said, Brian. The church dominance of the education system is particularly insidious, and the only word to describe it is indoctrination. The day can't come soon enough when the church is separated from education.
Posted by Brian | 13.11.09, 08:55 GMT
A secular state would be godless. That however would be a good thing.
Posted by atheistmormon | 12.11.09, 22:38 GMT
The organised religions offer doctrine but, in my opinion they increasingly do not offer morality and ethics or even goodness and kindness and high standards of behaviour. In my view the more doctrinaire they become, the crueller they become. Belief in God is not the same as belief in doctrine or the judgements of the heirarchy. Even Non believers support goodness and kindness, when will the organised religions do the same?
Posted by Keith | 12.11.09, 22:08 GMT
Indeed. The only reason christians fear secularism is that when the young aren't being indoctrinated, their power base will be eroded.
Posted by McD | 12.11.09, 22:00 GMT
Wish to God that Ulster was a true Christian society! Instead we have a plague of pretentious imposters who preach the word of God to further their political careers and bank balances! They preach hatred to one and other with vengence in their hearts If these people didnt exist a Christian society would be family orientated thus human life would be 'treasured' not 'aborted' and what more could any country hope for? I am sure non -Christians would reap the benefits as well.
Posted by Bill Turner | 12.11.09, 19:30 GMT
Agree with both Brian and Rob A.
Posted by Ed | 12.11.09, 18:48 GMT
Brian's right: only a secular state that protects everyone's right to believe, and which is independent from all belief systems, can ensure equality of treatment for its citizens.
Posted by Rob A | 12.11.09, 10:12 GMT