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Writing on the wall for Derry

Wednesday, 9 September 2009

There seems little doubt that the title Londonderry will soon be changed to Derry, unless nationalists and unionists come up with a compromise. Stroke City works well on the satirical airwaves, but hardly beyond.

In a sense, unionists have history on their side. There never was a significant urban settlement on the site of the present city until Londonderry was developed by the London Companies in the early 17th century, so that form of the name has first claim in terms of the urban historical record.

But the term Doire, to use the original Gaelic placename, predates the Ulster Plantation, and is of course embodied in the title Londonderry.

So in recognition of the two ethnic, religious and political traditions that have inhabited the capital of the north-west for more centuries than most Irish emigrants can trace their origins in North America, a possible compromise might be an amalgam of the English and Gaelic forms. So there it is: Londondoire. It all depends on how you say it.

PROFESSOR LIAM KENNEDY

School of History & Anthropology, Queen's University, Belfast

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If they want the name changed to Derry, then there are several things that need to happen.

The Queen withdraws the Royal Charter and it becomes a large town only.
It's coat of arms change completely as they are practically indentical to the City of London.

Republicans have nearly totally ethnically cleansed all Unionists from this town, and when they're in the majority there's certainly no such thing as equality, just the jackboot

Posted by markgfc | 23.09.09, 16:47 GMT

Sorry Saighdúir, I didn't realise that the Green, Alliance and Independent voters in Foyle/East Londonderry were nationalists (just like those voting SDLP/SF may not be, nor those voting DUP/UUP are loyalists). Voting patterns, especially with MLAs, reflect the confidence in the individual's actions not necessarily their ideolgy. How many loyalists/nationalists are there in NI? Who knows. There are only assumptions on your part, however logical they may be.

Posted by Bemused | 11.09.09, 12:39 GMT

Bemused, the census records show the religion of a particular respondant. County Derry has a Catholic majority.

If we look at the votes cast for Nationalist/Republican parties against those cast for Unionist/Loyalist parties in the area, there is a majority for the nationalist parties. The number of MP's/MLA's/local government representatives are also from the nationalist camp therefore it is correct to say that County Derry has a nationalist majority.

Logic and the facts. Both go well together.

Posted by Saighdúirí | 10.09.09, 22:01 GMT

Its called Londonderry - end of!
When are you people going to get a life and move on!
I couldnt care less if its called derry, londonderry, doire, stroke city, maiden city WHATEVER! Get on with your lives and stop worrying over something as petty as this!

Posted by Se | 10.09.09, 18:39 GMT

Saighdúirí, that's fantastic information, so the Census records show how many nationalists are in an area. I think you'll find that the last Census records show only the current/previous religion of those who completed the questions. But as you now realise, catholics are not necessarily nationalists or vice-versa. As to MP's and MLA's, would it shock you to find that the number of candidates affects who gets elected in an area and that the MP/MLA need not reflect the views of a majority in an area-such is democracy and especially with the excess of MLAs in Northern Ireland. Perhaps you can give me a source for the number of nationalists within Northern Ireland?

Posted by Bemused | 10.09.09, 15:49 GMT

No-need to do that Bemused, just try and learn to actually read what's in front of you before making baseless assertions.

I stated that Derry is one of the 4 Nationalist/Catholic counties in NI. That doesn't mean that all Nationalists are Catholic or all Catholics are Nationalist - what it does mean is that County Derry has a Nationalist and Catholic majority, as shown in the census records and the MP's/MLA's elected from the area.

Posted by Saighdúirí | 10.09.09, 15:12 GMT

Saighdúirí, thanks for explaining to me that all catholics are natuarally nationalist. I'll just go and re-educate some people that they were born with a mental imbalance.

Posted by Bemused | 10.09.09, 13:38 GMT

Brian, County Derry is one of the 4 majority Nationalist/Catholic counties in Northern Ireland so going by that criteria, you can park your proposition right there.

Posted by Saighdúirí | 10.09.09, 11:14 GMT

Londonderry is the official legal name of the city after the latest ruling by Mr Justice Weatherup and should remain until Northern Ireland ceases to be part of the United Kingdom. After the Irish Republic gained independence names eg., Kingstown and Queenstown were replaced by Dun Laoghaire and Cobh. To force through a city name change now using ratepayers' money for which no agreement was sought by Derry City Council will alienate the Unionist minority, destroy its middle ground and increase sectarianism.
Few would dispute that historically Derry is the appropriate title and its time will come with patience and political consideration.

Posted by George | 10.09.09, 09:06 GMT

How about some parity of esteem?

Call the majority nationalist city Derry, call the majority Unionist county Londonderry.

There is no historical background to "County Derry" as County Londonderry was created from County Coleraine plus parts of Donegal and Tyrone, previously County Coleraine was O'Cahans country.

Of course for this to work the GAA team will have to change their name to Londonderry.

Parity of esteem?

Didn't think so.....

Posted by Brian | 09.09.09, 17:01 GMT

Taking political posturing out of it, the majority of its inhabitants, of whichever tradition, call the city Derry. Only now are some pleading otherwise.

To me this has echoes of the use of the Irish language as a political tool.

Derry is just Derry. Let it's people speak.

Posted by Yip | 09.09.09, 15:48 GMT

Foyle City......should please both sides

Posted by GE | 09.09.09, 14:25 GMT

In no sense do Unionists have history on their side Sir unless you hold to the fact that Unionists are the ones who control history. Doire or Doire Columchille was the name of the settlement before the arrival of colonization and is still the name in Irish. The first settlement founded by the British on the side in 1604 was also known as Derry - no London involved, before the native Irish burned it down in 1608. It was only on the second founding in 1613 that the London was added as a sop to the London guilds who donated to its building.

It has always been known by its inhabitants as Derry. It is play-acting on the Unionist side that has turned this into a problem. The people of Derry are the ones who have the right to call their city as they wish and it's pretty obvious that the vast majority wish it to be known as simply "Derry".

That is what it's known as around the world, the name history supports and what it should be called as.

Posted by Saighdúirí | 09.09.09, 09:55 GMT