Troubled Mutual Society to be the dominant issue for Presbyterians
Religion Correspondent Alf McCreary charts the background to today’s important meeting of the Presbyterian General Assembly in Belfast
Monday, 1 June 2009
The Church of Scotland made headlines at its general assembly last weekend by backing — on a widely split vote — the appointment of a gay minister in Aberdeen, but the Presbyterian Church in Ireland will have other matters on its mind when it holds its own general assembly in Belfast from today.
Though undoubtedly there are gays in the Church, as in all walks of life, issues of sexuality have not been a preoccupation of Presbyterian's in recent times. This year a main focus of attention will be the troubled Presbyterian Mutual Society (PMS) in which large sums have been lost by nearly 10,000 investors.
The trouble began last autumn when the PMS experienced a run on its funds, following the Government guarantees in London and Dublin of savers’ bank deposits, up to a certain limit.
The PMS was not included in the Governments’ umbrella and, despite a concerted campaign by leading Presbyterian's, including the Moderator, the Rt Rev Dr Donald Patton, the Prime Minister and Treasury officials have not provided the protection required to help allay the PMS members fears.
Membership is restricted to Presbyterian's only, and a number of congregations have significant sums locked in the society. Many individuals have been affected by the lack of returns from their investments and a number of people are facing various degrees of loss or hardship.
Despite the campaigning and public comments, little has changed since last October.
The Administrator, Arthur Boyd, was due to ask members to vote this month on a detailed plan for an “orderly run-down”, but this has been delayed until the autumn because of the complexity of the society’s ‘loan book’ and the still-unresolved question of Government protection for savers.
The general assembly will hold a debate on the PMS tomorrow afternoon, but because the society and the Presbyterian church are separate legal entities, members may not be able to question technically the way in which the society carried out its business.
They will, however, be able to comment on how the Church has handled the matter and the vexed issue of the precise links between the Church and the society which share the same Presbyterian name.
Only delegates to the assembly will be able to speak or vote, though it is expected that other members will listen attentively to the debate from the public gallery.
It is difficult to know what members can do further at this stage to recoup their losses, but there is likely to be passionate comment about an issue which has caused pain as well as financial loss to many Presbyterian's.
Already an unprecedented protest by PMS savers has been organised outside Church House for this evening, prior to the start of the Assembly.
There are, of course, many other issues facing the Assembly, including the Church’s studied response to the controversial Eames-Bradley report on the Consultative Group on the Past and also its views on education, peace-making, youth issues and other matters. The Clerk of the General Assembly, the Rev Dr Donald Watts, is on record as saying that the last six months have been among the most difficult in the recent history of the Church.
Given such a background, it may not be an ‘untroubled’ General Assembly which will have to deal with several important topics, as well as others which may crop up during the proceedings.
Nevertheless, one crucial factor will be the tone of the debate over the PMS and this will be taken as indication of the Church’s ability to demonstrate ‘Christian charity’ at a time when recrimination and the ‘blame culture’ may be all too humanly tempting to those who have lost a great deal through no fault of their own.
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english, people! we're not called "presbyterian's", there is no appostrophe, is this really too much to ask?
Posted by Rowan | 10.06.09, 07:14 GMT
Usury is forbidden in Exodus xxii and Deuteronomy xxiii. In Leviticus xxv vv 36&37 one reads '' You shall not charge him interest on a loan, either by deducting it in advance from the capital sum, or by adding it on on repayment.....you shall not deduct interest when advancing him money nor add interest to the payment due for food supplied on credit. ''
P M S clients were investors not savers and should have been wary of an institution paying the highest interest. Presbyterian greed, alas!
Posted by George | 03.06.09, 17:15 GMT
Have patience Patricia I have heard lots of rumours but I prefer to wait for the facts. You should do the same. PMS is a secured creditor with a charge on land and property. Remember you were a shareholder not a saver. You were happy to take the return when the developers were doing well.
Posted by EH | 02.06.09, 19:30 GMT
Hilary,
As a heterosexual human-being, I'm appalled that you quote the scriptures that suit you. Surely the church and banking should have nothing to do with each-other. Wasn't Jesus an anti-capitalist? Did he not drive people like the PMS from the temple. Why is it Presbyterians like yourself and the Robinson's worship money....not very christian are you? Good living for a living!!!!
Posted by William | 02.06.09, 16:30 GMT
Do you honestly believe after seven months - that you are going to receive your savings in full? Where have you been? Have you not heard of the money which was lent to property developers who are now in liquidation?
It will take a very LONG time to get the return of your savings? and they will most certainly not be in full.
Posted by Patricia | 01.06.09, 23:10 GMT
As a Presbyterian I am appalled that our fellow Presbyterians in Aberdeen have gone completely against Bibical teaching by backing a gay minister. Surely this has to be a major issue for the church. As for the PMS why in recent newspaper articles our they saying we have lost our money that the first i have heard of
this and as EH quite rightly points out the loans where well secured and also the rental income is still coming in to the administrator so give it al ltime it will work out
Posted by hilary | 01.06.09, 18:35 GMT
It is premature and quite wrong for Alf McCreary to say that members have lost large sums in the PMS. If the directors have been prudent the loans will have been well secured and lent to individuals who have assets other than the land they borrowed against. Like others they may have cash flow problems but there is no evidence that they have run away from their obligations to fellow Presbyterians, many of modest means. So far there has been no evidence of bad faith. Give the administrator time.
Posted by EH | 01.06.09, 15:12 GMT